Ending the Paycheck to Paycheck Lifestyle w/ Payactiv CCO, Sabina Bhatia

Show notes in order of appearance:

• Sabina’s last oh shit moment
• Seb reads off several awards that Sabina’s company has achieved in the past 5 years.
• What is the most unconscious or least purpose-driven thing that you did as a young girl or woman?
• Sabina is on the Conscious Capitalism Senior Leadership program, a mentor for Girls on the Run, a certified skydiver, a 5-time marathon runner, and a 2-century bike rider.  What is gnarlier the marathon or the century bike ride?
• At what point in your life did you decide that profit should go hand in hand with purpose?
• Tipping and bad service.
• Payactive is based on the concept of Earned Wage Access and Sabina has been involved with its expansion since 2012
• Sabina explains EWA.
• Examples of real life users.
• Real life examples of a company using EWA for its employees. How is the company benefitting?
• Payactiv is a B Corp. What are the main pillars that have helped you guys become a B Corp?
• How is a fintech company sustainable?
• When do you believe that the label Certified B Corporation will become mainstream and will it ever?
• We are experiencing massive inflation. This is due to money printing and it seems as though the gap between low-income people and households and high-income households is significantly widening. What do you see as the solution to this serious problem?
• Many people today and especially since the pandemic are experiencing financial stress. They live paycheck to paycheck or one paycheck behind which gets them into debt.
• What is the #1 thing that you recommend they do first?
• Sabina shares her top two traits for a conscious leader to embody.

Check out payactiv.com and connect with Sabina on LinkedIn 

Connect with Sebastian on Instagram

SebastianNaum.com

Below is a transcript of the video podcast created by Seb’s Robot buddy, Zekton. He tends to make mistakes so please forgive him if you find errors or some funky sounding sentences. For the real deal, watch the video or click on your favorite audio Podcast platform above! Enjoy!

Sebastian Naum:
What’s up fam today I had on Sabina Batia. She is an accomplished leader and customer champion tirelessly fighting for the financial wellness of every American worker as a chief customer officer at pay active. She acts as a daily advocate and amplifier for the needs of thousands of corporate clients and millions of lower income workers. After 20 years in wall street, Sabina has been instrumental in building the financial category of earned wage access, which is a super interesting concept that we get into in the podcast. Think of hourly wage earners, having access to the money they’ve earned for the hours. They’ve just completed the previous day without waiting for a paycheck. Sabina is a member of the conscious capitalism senior leadership network. She’s also a mentor for girls on the run, a certified sky diver, a five time marathon runner and a two century bike rider, pretty sick.

Sebastian Naum:
Right? This interview taught me about a category that I didn’t even know existed and can be a major catalyst for the solution of a widening gap between the lower income hourly wage earner and the high income part of the population. I hope you enjoy the show. Also, have you subscribed yet? If you enjoy conscious profits unfiltered, please show me some love with a little review action and more importantly, share it with a friend or on your Insta story or wherever, you know, whatever form of support you choose. I will be extremely grateful for it, guys. Thanks again. And enjoy the show. Sabina. Welcome to the show. Great to have you.

Sabina Bhatia:
Hey Sebastian, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here.

Sebastian Naum:
Wonderful, wonderful. As MI Sabina. I like to start my shows by asking my guests, when was your last oh, moment. So that can mean anything from something super serious or just something like small, just what’s the first thing that comes to mind when you’re like, oh.

Sabina Bhatia:
<laugh> well, Sebastian, that should be an easy answer because I have O moments every day. <laugh> um, and I’ll tell you what I did, uh, most recently and, uh, everyone I spoke to had a great laugh and they said that I was humid. So I drive a few days back. I was on a conference call in the car for some reason, the battery was down to like 10% on my car and I drove into a gas station

Sebastian Naum:
<laugh>

Sabina Bhatia:
I thought the gas station would solve my problem. And I sat there and I did rest of my conference call for nine minutes and I said, oh,

Sebastian Naum:
Okay. And then what?

Sabina Bhatia:
And then I said, oh, this is not gonna solve my problem. Let me leave you. So, yes. Um, after driving an electric vehicle for more than three years, I drove into a gas station thinking I would solve my problem. <laugh>

Sebastian Naum:
That’s great. You know, I feel like soon enough gas stations should have some sort of high speed, high powered, you know, EV charging station you’d figure.

Sabina Bhatia:
I, you know, you would think so, but

Sebastian Naum:
They wouldn’t make a money.

Sabina Bhatia:
I highly

Sebastian Naum:
Love it, but, but maybe they can charge a premium or something. That’s an interesting thing. Um, <laugh>, that’s great. I

Sabina Bhatia:
Would actually do it just for the stores. You know, they have those retail stores. That’s

Sebastian Naum:
True.

Sabina Bhatia:
Do it for that. And I’ve done that. Um, you know, I sometimes drive to Napa and I have a set location where I stop, I charge my car and I walk into the store and I buy a snack. Yeah. So they should probably do it.

Sebastian Naum:
That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. New business idea coming up. So Sabina, I’m just gonna read up some of the awards that your company has achieved and then we’re gonna get into some other stuff, but, uh, was within just the past five years, uh, best for the world, B Corp digital wallet, impact product design, financial company of the year, consumer champion, corporate social responsibility. Excellent sustainability, best of the show, top HR product. I think this is pretty awesome. So let me start by going back and asking you, what is the most unconscious or least purpose driven thing that you can remember from your younger years, either as a, as a girl or just as a younger woman that you think that was not very purpose driven?

Sabina Bhatia:
Well, uh, growing up, I looked for shortcuts to do, and I, so I can’t think of a specific event, but, uh, I thought being effective, uh, did not really require spending a lot of time. Hmm. Instant gratification. And that doesn’t take you far. So, um, I’ve learned growing up and you know, those are in my teen years, you know, growing up in India and, uh, there’s always a lot of pressure growing up as a child there. Yeah. You get certain amount of grades there’s you, you were 18 and you’re supposed to achieve this and you’re 20 and you’re supposed to achieve this, this, all that. Um, and when I moved to New York, when I was 18, right. You know, after high school, I very quickly learned that instant gratification is not always the best way to go. Uh, so I would say that was one of the, my unconscious, um,

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. So do you feel that some of those, um, things that are instilled in to, to young Indian women and like you said, there’s so much pressure to achieve, to do this by X time and this like that. Do you, do you, do you feel that some of that stays in the subconscious that you still, like, you check yourself today where you’re like, okay, that’s the voice that’s telling me to do X and you’re feeling that self pressure.

Sabina Bhatia:
I still think about it. Yeah. And, but when I grew up, those were different times. Uh, India has progressed a lot, the role of women, um, their, uh, education backgrounds were always strong. We were always encouraged to study hard. Uh, not just your undergrad, do your masters, you know, but, uh, you know, life has changed a lot. The, the culture has changed a lot. Um, I would say that I still think about it. I would say that there needs to be a fair balance. Right. Because I remember growing up and my favorite channel used to be, you know, MTV and <laugh>, you know, so I, and I thought that was cool. Yeah. And when I moved here, two of my favorite channels were 9 0 2, 1 oh. And Melrose place. And, um, you know, that’s not America, right. Maybe a little piece of America, but that’s really not the culture. So I think, um, you know, just going through being educated, not just academically, but you understand what is relevant in your environment is important to find that balance, everything does not have to be related to Melrose place and MTV, you know? Yeah. So America is a great country and working hard and being able to see the results of your hard work is something, uh, that I relate to more. And so I think, uh, that is the conscious effort that women and Indian women and immigrants in general, uh, should really look forward to.

Sebastian Naum:
Wonderful. I love that Sabina. You are on the conscious capitalism, senior leadership program. Uh, you mentor for girls on the run. You’re a certified sky diver, a five time marathon runner and a two century bike rider. You’re around it. AAF, Sabina. I mean, what is NA what is gnarly? The, the marathon running or this century bike ride what’s crazier. What’s harder.

Sabina Bhatia:
Uh, I would say marathon running. Yeah, because you are, you know, doing the same movement for such a long time and all by yourself. Yeah. Right. And you are on your feet. Uh, the fun thing about the marathon running is that you get to see so many things that you don’t get to see when you’re driving. Right. Right. And it’s amazing to see that when you run the marathon, the people that you least expect to beat, you will beat you. <laugh> right. And then it just like tears your heart apart. I remember my first marathon was the Paris marathon, many years back, like about 15 years back. And there were twin brothers that were, that were running in front of me. And they both had only one real leg each.

Sebastian Naum:
Wow.

Sabina Bhatia:
I could never beat them SSAS. And those are my younger years. Right. I wanted to really beat them because I thought I would be stronger because I beat them. I could never beat them. <laugh> so that’s powerful. Talk about willpower, right? Yeah.

Sebastian Naum:
And that’s inspiring too, to see them beat you is super inspiring for you. Oh,

Sabina Bhatia:
Awesome. It’s awesome. I actually had a pretty good time. And when I finished, I, you know, I was like, no way, this is not as good as I could do it. Yeah. So it was a very inspiring moment. So those kind of things, uh, yeah. Running for four, five hours, hopefully closer to four than five. Um, but the things that you see can shape your life.

Sebastian Naum:
That’s wild. I, you know, I’ve never ran a marathon. Um, and I’m very, you know, I’m fairly athletic. I, I do a lot of physical activity and I just, I feel like so much of that is, is, is in your head, right? Like it’s gotta be super mental when it comes to a marathon, because I feel like I can run five miles and I feel like I hit a wall and I’m like, you know, I tell some of my friends, I’m like, I could never run a marathon. I say that. And they’re like, you can, like, if you’re running five, six miles at that point, it just becomes, so it’s very physical, but it’s very, it’s even more mental, right?

Sabina Bhatia:
It is because you are by yourself zone and all you’re doing is stepping forward every second. That’s all you’re doing for all those hours.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. That’s a

Sabina Bhatia:
Lot little trail track. That’s all you’re doing. So, you know, it, it is in a big way, mental, um, you, of course you have to be physically fit. Yeah. But you don’t have to be at that hundred percent point to finish a marathon. There are people who run seven hours and they finished a marathon. And I would think that is even more difficult because, oh my God, you were running for seven hours. Instead of me who was running for like four or four and a half. Right. Those things.

Sebastian Naum:
Interesting. Yeah. And that’s super cool. So, you know, at what point in your life did you decide that, uh, purpose should go or that profit should go hand in hand with purpose?

Sabina Bhatia:
I say this to everyone and I’ll keep repeating, and I’m not gonna find a new story. Right. Because it’s real. I believe it was 2008. I was part of the 2008 crisis. I was working on wall street. Um, I had worked as a hedge fund analyst for close to 20 years. And, uh, I felt like I was getting older for the hedge fund community. I didn’t think I would grow a lot, uh, more, but at that point I saw the financial stress in New York. I saw the financial stress among my friends and colleagues who were making six figure incomes. Right. Um, I also saw the recovery from the 2008 crisis, at least the short term recovery. And, you know, my mentors came to me and they said, you have such a diverse finance background. You can do so many different things. Why do you have to be working for a hedge fund as a hedge fund analyst, go do something crazy, you know, uh, have fun. And I think that was my tipping point where I had all these conversations with my mentors and I felt like I had the freedom and independence to go and do something that truly makes me happy. Yeah. But I can do well financially, too. So, um, yeah. The whole concept of helping, uh, the American hourly workforce, which is about 44% of the American work,

Sebastian Naum:
44%

Sabina Bhatia:
Yes. Hour, they are, they are in the front line of industries. So Sebastian, yeah. When this weekend you go do your groceries. Yeah. And you check out that person who checked you out. Yeah. Check your money and back your food. That is the person that we wanna help. And you wanna help them because if they’re not in a good mood and if they’re not performing well, you are not gonna be in a good mood the rest of the weekend. Right. So, so you wanna help them. And really that became one of the things I wanted to do and help businesses in a different way.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s wonderful. I love that. And it was at a time of crisis that you had this sort of shift in the way you saw your potential career and looking to building purpose into that and seeing that you can build purpose into profit. And that’s so interesting that 44%, I didn’t realize it was that high. And you’re very right. I actually had, um, I had dinner this, this weekend with my girlfriend and, and I was just like, we had a shockingly really bad service, uh, by this one server. And, you know, you know, with all, you try to have so much, you know, practices that go into, like, I’m not gonna take this personally. I’m still gonna enjoy this time, but it’s most of the time, like somebody can really affect your day and they can affect your, your mood. And then that sort of trickles. So like you said, the more unhappy that everyone is, no matter how high or up in the socioeconomic, you know, ladder they are and the type of job, right. The more the happier people are. And that, that trickles. Right. So,

Sabina Bhatia:
Um, right. And you know, you have to believe that this, at least I like to believe that there’s something going on in their life, which puts them in the, in a bad, totally against them aged, you cannot say 44% of American workforce. They just all bad people. No. You know, you can’t do that. Um, I’ll tell you, you talked about a restaurant and many years back, I was sitting with one of my, uh, friends in, uh, uh, New York and, you know, having lunch and I waited for my food. I waited for my food. And then finally I got my food in like 40 minutes and yeah, something simple that should have been there in like 10 minutes. So 15 minutes, right. We ended our meal and I just gave like a horrible tip and my friend stopped me and she says, what are you doing? S and I said, oh my God, this service was horrible. It should not have taken 45 minutes to get me my appetizer. And she said, well, was, was the appetizer hot when it got to you? And I said, yeah, it was fresh and hot. She said, well, it wasn’t the service fault. It was the kitchen’s fault.

Sebastian Naum:
Okay.

Sabina Bhatia:
Right. So the food didn’t get there for the longest time. How can the server help that it’s different if your food is cold and the server just didn’t get it to you on time, you cannot do that. And I immediately corrected myself and I gave the server on good tip. So you have to be conscious of these things.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. You can, things going on there. A few things that I think are interesting because this is very similar to my situation. Right. So just like that’s going on this for a second. So one is, um, if was, is the server, was, was that person still being kind apologetic about the length of time that you were waiting? So that was, that would be one thing if they were, but, and if let’s say they they’re not, and they’re just rude about it still, do you feel that you still feel compassion for that person? They must be rude to you because they’re having a rough day. Maybe they’re having something that’s, you know, going on in their lives, health wise with their family, themselves, economic, whatever. Do you still have the compassion and then you still tip them really well, even though they treated you not well. Or do you also think, okay, if I reward bad behavior, I’m just going to con just essentially just reinforce the bad behavior and that’s not really gonna help. How do you see that situation?

Sabina Bhatia:
My first reaction is why don’t we start with the benefit of doubt?

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah.

Sabina Bhatia:
I, I just don’t know. I don’t know this person. I don’t know this person’s life. Why don’t we next step should be a good step. So let’s give the benefit of that. Right. I also feel like once again, what you do is important, but Sebastian, how you do it is even more important. Right? So someone at apologizes to me, they can do it in two ways. Ma’am, I’m sorry about the service here. Let me try and correct it. I’m gonna do this for you. Okay. Right.

Sabina Bhatia:
I’m sorry. This did not work hard for you. So the first one is a better response than the second one. Right? And especially when you are referring to a industry, which is primarily hospitality, so you have to be careful. That’s just the way, way it is. So we, what we are trying to do here, and, you know, my purpose really is to really help employers understand this is the life of your worker. And more than 50% of the workers are essentially saying that financial stress is my biggest problem. There are many other issues, right? Let’s not ignore those. That is one problem we can try and solve, right. So if I can help but solve that, maybe they will be nice to 50% of the Sebastians and subpoenas that walk in. Yeah. If not 80% or 10%,

Sebastian Naum:
I, I like this transition into what we’re gonna go into because at the end of the day, we’re, we’re speaking about a very specific life day to day example in which, uh, a hospitality worker may be experiencing financials. 50% of them may be experiencing financial stress. And thus that is reflected in the way they are treating the customer. Right. So let’s get right into it. Your company pay active, um, is based on the concept of earned wage access. So E AA earned wage access is something that you have been involved with since the beginning in 2012. Uh, explain exactly what earned wage access is.

Sabina Bhatia:
Sure. Um, let’s take a look at a salaried worker first. So I get paid a salary. If I just leave for a couple of hours and come back, do I get paid? <affirmative> of course I do. I get paid paid.

Sebastian Naum:
Oh, oh. I thought you meant like, and at like at the time, got it.

Sabina Bhatia:
No, no, but I do get paid for the hours.

Sebastian Naum:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sabina Bhatia:
Correct. So I take, I don’t work on Saturday and Sundays. Do I get paid? Of course I do get paid for those hours. Now let’s take a look at an hourly worker. Right. They have to punch in and they have to punch out to get the right approved hours, hit payroll. Okay. So when you talk about earned, earned wage access, right? So it is earned. It’s not a loan, it’s, uh, not any kind of credit they’re getting. It is always that they have worked.

Sebastian Naum:
You’re exchanging your time for money directly.

Sabina Bhatia:
Perfect. Yes. It’s about time and it’s about time. We help them. Right? So earned wage access. What it does is an already worker clocks in, they clock out, but traditionally they have to wait to get paid. Whatever a payroll is, process.

Sebastian Naum:
Right.

Sabina Bhatia:
What we do is we give them access to, to up to 90% of their net earned, but unpaid. So not tomorrow’s hours, not day after hours, just hours that I completed to date. And in fact, even today’s hours, we don’t give them access to, unless we know that the hours have been completed. So it is, it is their money essentially. Right?

Sebastian Naum:
So it’s starting from, let’s say yesterday until the, the last paycheck.

Sabina Bhatia:
Exactly, exactly. Day one. Uh, so from the first to the 12th of this month, if I’ve earned it and I need it, we make sure that they are to access it. We fund it, they can go into our platform, they can access their funds. The employer doesn’t pay anything, zero zil NA, right. But you have a happier employee. So that is what we do that is earned wage access. Right. But why, what is going on is the bigger issue, like what is the purpose of doing this? And the purpose is the 200 billion in predatory fees that hourly worker ends up paying because they don’t have access to the work that they’ve completed.

Sebastian Naum:
So basically we’re talking about most people being on a paycheck to paycheck, but really not even paycheck to paycheck. They’re one paycheck behind just one or two paychecks behind is causing them to max out their credit cards to get into debt. And if they just have access to what they’ve actually earned, starting from the day before, it just creates a, a snowball effect of positivity into their, you know, financial health, from what I’m understanding. Hey guys, I just wanna remind you, if you wanna find more content like this, you can visit Sebastian nom.com. That’s Sebastian NA, um, dot com. You can also get a ton of other marketing resources for myself and my agencies ranging from SEO to social media, influencer, marketing, branding, web development, and more again, that’s Sebastian, no.com. Thank you. And enjoy the rest of the show.

Sabina Bhatia:
Sebastian not have been one paycheck, just about a hundred dollars.

Sebastian Naum:
Wow.

Sabina Bhatia:
Yeah, that’s it. That gets them through their week. And these are workers that, um, make 15, $16 an hour. Yeah. And all that. They access 80 bucks, a hundred dollars to just get them through the week where they can, uh, spend the money on gas, which is, you know, yeah.

Sebastian Naum:
That’s what

Sabina Bhatia:
I was thinking in California. Six gallon. Yeah. The gas station. I go and visit sometimes for, for no reason. Uh, you know,

Sebastian Naum:
<laugh>

Sabina Bhatia:
$6 a gallon. So just to get to work, to earn a living, becomes a problem. And then they go to payday loan places. Then the utility gets shut off. Then they pay late fees, disconnect fees, reconnect fees. So, you know, overdraft fees, overdraft fees is a big problem. Right. Um, people pay 35, $40 in overdraft fees and annually. It’s close to 30 billion.

Sebastian Naum:
Wow.

Sabina Bhatia:
In, yes. Now think about if we take that same 30 billion and put it in this economy, wouldn’t that be way better? That’s

Sebastian Naum:
Crazy. That is a wild number. So let’s take, uh, Steve, uh, Steve is a real life example user, um, of the platform proactive. And mm-hmm, <affirmative> be somebody that needs this. How, how does exactly does that work for Steve?

Sabina Bhatia:
Sure. We get, uh, time attendance data from the employer it’s automated nowadays. Yeah. Every employer has some kind of payroll system or time attendance system. We know when an employee’s clocked in clocked out, we calculate what their 90% net could possibly be. Uh, we get that information from the employer. So the calculation is pretty easy. Um, and an employee basically enrolls into our program. They go into the app and they can access those funds, which accrue every day as we get the TNA data, it accrues every day they go in, they say, oh, I have $300 to access. They can access it by sending it to a P card to sending it to a bank account. They can even transfer those funds to Amazon and buy groceries. They can take an Uber ride. They don’t have to ever worry about, do I have a credit card? And is there money in there? Do I have a bank account? Is there money in there? Your money is here inside the pay app. So Pito just becomes their banking alternative.

Sebastian Naum:
This is super cool. It’s very, very in, it really is really cool. You know, uh, when I was, when I first, I honestly had no idea about pay active, um, uh, you know, until we got introduced to each other, I had no idea this existed. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, um, not, I’m grateful that I’m not necessarily the, the, the target consumer of it, but what I mean is this should be known, you know, this should be everywhere. This is, I mean, it’s an incredible way to think about. And it’s actually quite simple to think about it’s, it’s not like a crazy concept, you know, and I was gonna ask you is, you know, a real life example of the company, how is the company benefiting? And, and the first thing that comes to mind obviously is the company’s benefiting by having happier employees, people that are right able to access the money and have reduced less, you know, reduced stress, which means that they have a, a better output for the company. What other, um, what other advantages for the company are there?

Sabina Bhatia:
Well today in the American, uh, workforce about 35%, uh, consider themselves to be freelancers. So imagine an employer, um, who says that, you know, it’s gonna take me whatever, three to four months to go hire someone. And this person decides that I’m gonna leave in the middle of the shift and I’m gonna go fill in an Uber ride because I’m gonna get paid that day. Right? So they do have to deal with this new gig workforce, freelancers, this whole community. That’s just a very different mindset. So it helps them to recruit people. So an employer can, uh, you know, in their job listing say, come work with us. You can get paid any day. You want, you don’t have to wait to get paid. So now why would a worker say, you know what? I don’t wanna work here. I wanna go and pump gas across the street at that gas station, because when I’m done pumping gas of the day, they’ll hand me 50 bucks and I’m done for the day. That’s what I,

Sebastian Naum:
Let me ask you something. Cuz I got, I got a little lost on, there was a, a quick glitch in the, in the wifi matrix there. Um, the, the what, how did the freelancer come into play? That’s what, what I missed.

Sabina Bhatia:
So today the American workforce, 35% consider them, consider themselves to be freelancers.

Sebastian Naum:
Okay.

Sabina Bhatia:
That is your audience. When you’re trying to hire to fill in a shift or you know, some job that requires you to

Sebastian Naum:
Find, yeah, I’ve got about 30 freelancers probably between our agency. Bingo.

Sabina Bhatia:
There you go. So, you know, for them, they will go where they get satisfied, you know, and they will go where they get paid every day. Oh, any day they, yeah,

Sebastian Naum:
The quickest. Yeah.

Sabina Bhatia:
Yes. That instant gratification. Yeah. Why should they wait? And they can go right for Uber and get paid any day they want, they have a car, they can do that. So why should they come and work with you? And then wait two weeks to get paid. Here’s the other problem that we are seeing today, which is during the pandemic. So many people didn’t work. So today the people that you are hiring, don’t forget, there might be a huge population out of that, that hasn’t worked for ages. So now, if they are a new employee and you, and you pay in arrears, they might have to wait for more than two weeks to get paid. Now the same person because of the pandemic might be supporting the extended family today, not just the immediate family, because the extended family lost their job, you know? So it’s just so messy. And all we are telling employers is that they’ve punched in, they’ve punched out, they’ve finished. Just give them a percentage of that. That’s all,

Sebastian Naum:
That’s great

Sabina Bhatia:
Jumping in for it.

Sebastian Naum:
That’s that’s great. That’s awesome. I love it. Really cool business model, honestly, kind of. It’s good for everybody. <laugh> awesome. And, and that also helps move the economy. It stimulates the economy because the people people have the money right away.

Sabina Bhatia:
Correct. And Sebastian, you made a comment. You said that, you know, you’re very fortunate, uh, that, uh, you are not in one of those situations at least today. So you’re not necessarily our direct user. You actually are Sebastian and you just don’t know that. And I’ll tell you why, how much do you pay for a movie ticket nowadays? Like 15, $16,

Sebastian Naum:
20, I think. Yeah, something like that.

Sabina Bhatia:
You can go into our platform, we have a marketplace and you can buy a movie ticket for eight bucks.

Sebastian Naum:
So you guys have partnerships,

Sabina Bhatia:
Movies.

Sebastian Naum:
So you have partnerships with certain companies that give you discounts and things like that. So that’s a little add on for the person that may, maybe doesn’t need, cuz I’m not an hourly earner, but I can still use the platform

Sabina Bhatia:
Hundred percent. Uh, so EWA, that is how we started. So that solves the immediate liquidity issue. Sure. What we saw is we surveyed users and asked them, when was the last time you went to a benefit platform or your company website? Like, why should we go there either we are not qualified for the benefit or there’s nothing there for me. Okay. Then my next question to you is how often do you go into your banking app every day? Why? Because that’s where my money is. So what we saw is that our users kept coming into our app because that’s where then money set. And we said, okay, we’ll solve your liquidity issue, but it’s very expensive to be poor. Right? Uh, you end up paying so much in fees and you know, all kind of stuff. Yeah. So we not just wanna give you access to your liquidity. We also wanna help you save the money that you have. So instead of paying 15, 16, $20 as you might be paying in Santa Monica for a movie ticket, why, why don’t, why wouldn’t you pay for two movie tickets for 20 bucks? So I get my movie tickets on our platform. I also get prescription discounts on my platform. I also take Uber rides through my platform, so I don’t touch any other funding. I just use my earn, but done paid wages. Why not? Wonderful.

Sebastian Naum:
That’s awesome. And uh, you guys are a certified B corporation. Uh, so what are the main pillars that helped you become certified B?

Sabina Bhatia:
Uh, so our score, let me start by saying, uh, score is 1 0 3 0.4. And um, the average I believe is like 50 something. Yeah. So, you know, 50 something is like the minimum you need, uh, to pass mm-hmm <affirmative>

Sebastian Naum:
That’s incredible

Sabina Bhatia:
Now <laugh> yes. So, you know, we are a certified B Corp, uh, but I will say Sebastian being a business for good, uh, making a quantifiable impact, uh, making an impact on communities, users, businesses was always in our DNA.

Sebastian Naum:
Right.

Sabina Bhatia:
Corp. Just legitimize what we were doing.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah, absolutely. Do, do you feel that I’m, you know, I’m also, uh, I’m the conscious capitalism board, so this is sort of my language, but you know, for people that, um, that they’re not, that that are not passionate about this, I see the, the certified B corporation label. I’m starting to see it more and more on a lot of CPG brands and things that you see in the store, whatever that may be. Do you feel that there’s gonna be a point where certified B becomes mainstream and I, if that is, when do you, when do you see that happening? Because that would be an incredible thing.

Sabina Bhatia:
Yes. Listen, it’s already grown a lot in the last few years. I do think businesses care. Yeah. Um, I do think businesses have the power with their resources and their influence to make a change. And I do believe more and more businesses are looking for purpose to see what good are they actually adding. Right. Yeah. Smaller things like you’re a technology platform. Are you using that for good? Or are you using it to maneuver through something that is not necessarily considered to be good? Right. And, uh, so I, I see it growing a lot, which is why, you know, the huge conscious capitalism movement movement. I’m also a member of the senior leadership network. You are part of the board. I mean, look at this, we didn’t know that before we started our podcast today dejavu. So we there’s more and more of that. Yeah. I think the biggest thing is that people outside of B Corp are curious when they see that B are curious to understand, well, what does it mean? Conscious capitalism. You do not have to disadvantage someone to make some money it’s not necessary.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah, absolutely. For me, it’s a ha yeah, that’s a big part of my purchasing decision. I’ve got two things. One of ’em has that logo, no brainer. Right. And so I hope that more and more people learn and know about it because I think a lot of people don’t even know what it even means. So this is, and this is what we’re trying to do. Right. So, uh, how is, I was curious, how is the FinTech company sustainable? Right. Cause there’s so many people in, in technology and, uh, and they have, you know, apps or they work for a FinTech company. How, how does sustainability come into play?

Sabina Bhatia:
Uh, well I, the way I look at it is that what, what is your offering and what impact are you making? And can you quantify that impact? We grew as an EWA, uh, company, and as you know, many other EWA companies started to pop up, uh, you know, there are a lot of smart technologists and in Silicon valley, there are tons, there are many innovators, um, but you wanna be an innovator with the purpose, uh, which is how our company is started. So, you know, we are on a path of growing, growing. We don’t wanna be a commodity product we wanna grow and we wanna look at different ways we can make impact on that same workforce. And maybe more so today I can make an impact on your life this weekend, right. By using the technology platform, by using the right partnerships to make sure Sebastian does not pay two and a half times for a movie ticket when it’s not necessary. So, you know, those things have to be done if you don’t do that, you know, many things could happen. Right? Sure. You could maybe just get acquired by a bigger giant that who’s doing all those things that we are trying to do over here, or you just disappear. Right. Um, and our part path has been of growth, uh, being open minded, understanding the impact and making the changes. You’ve gotta use the technology for good

Sebastian Naum:
Mm. Technology for good. Absolutely. Yeah. People, I think, uh, there’s such bad rap on technology and fast growth and even our social media platforms and things like that. I think it’s just like any tool, uh, you know, you can use a knife to stop somebody, or you can use it to chop up some organic vegetables <laugh> for your salad. So I think at the end of the day, it is their tools and using them for good is so important. I agree, uh, Sabina, we are experiencing experiencing massive inflation. This is due to money printing. And a lot of other things, it seems that the gap between low income households and people and high income is really widening. So outside of, you know, things like, you know what we’re talking about here with your platform, how do you, how do you see this getting better? Do you see any sort of solution that can help this widening gap?

Sabina Bhatia:
A great thing is happening in our economy. And that is the hourly workforce. Now has power has a lot of power because last couple of years, uh, when we were in the pandemic while a lot of us were hiding at home, did not wanna go out to a grocery store. Did not wanna go to a pharmacy, uh, did not wanna go to a movie theater, all that they will. We were afraid to get sick, to get a virus. Yeah. The definition of essential workforce became bigger. It’s not only the healthcare worker in a hospital or a nursing home or a senior living community. It is all those people who have to step out of the house to make sure Sebastian’s grocery is checked out. Sabina’s package is delivered. That has her medications from a pharmacy. Those hourly workers became essential. And now those same hourly workers are going to businesses and saying, it’s about time. You cannot have one set of benefits for the salaried workforce and then a whole different set of benefits for us, whether they align to our needs or not, that will not work right. You have to meet our needs. So there is a switch. The unfortunate place that we are in is, and we did a study on understanding the livelihood of, uh, our workforce through every state. We went through all 50 states. And if we define livelihood as your basic, you know, can you cover your food, clothing, transportation?

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah.

Sabina Bhatia:
If you covered that, your next stage is of dignity savings, all those things. Right. And we saw that 48 out of 50 states, the livelihood could not be covered. Right? So what we need to make sure is that liquidity that they need is covered. There is a solution for that. And you know, so if I’m gonna spend the last couple of years growing this economy, why shouldn’t I participate in the growth of the economy? It’s because of me, you survived. Otherwise you would walk into a grocery store and there would be no food on the shelves that no one to check you out. Remind me some, these strange movies I see. Sometimes it’s scary. <laugh> where people are trying to get some food and there’s nothing in stores. And there is a hurricane coming and all those crazy things, none of those things happen to you and me because they took care of us. So I think that problem has to be solved. Otherwise, once again, food is more expensive. Gas is more expensive. Transportation is more expensive. We can finally feel it and people cannot afford to do it. And the reason they cannot afford to do it is not about increasing their hourly rate by 30 cents or 50 cents. That’s not gonna solve the problem, just give them liquidity, help them solve that problem. And I think that will help.

Sebastian Naum:
Wonderful. Yeah. I think it’s a really interesting solution that frankly hadn’t really even been on my radar until we were talking about it. So I’m glad we’re having, having the conversation, uh, Sabina, many people are having this issue, right? So if somebody’s listening out there and they’re actually living paycheck to paycheck, um, outside of having access to something like this, what would you say should be the, the number one thing that you would recommend that they do first to get their finances in place,

Sabina Bhatia:
Get access to your liquidity. You’ve earned it, you need it. You should be able to access it, work with organizations that allow you to do so

Sebastian Naum:
Simple enough. So know what are the two traits that you believe are conscious leader that you’re two top traits that a conscious leader must embody today.

Sabina Bhatia:
Simple as what is the purpose? What are you trying to do? That is really important. And it can be very, very simple to answer that question. I have that answer for me every day and I compare it to where I was before 2008. Purpose is very different today. I can feel the purpose every day because I can pick up the phone and speak to a user and a user will tell me, thank God for pay active. I could go buy milk and diapers.

Sabina Bhatia:
I get goosebumps. I feel so much bigger and awesome. Right? So, you know, purpose, I think one it’s important. The other thing I feel is keep doing what you do, but how you do it. It’s very, very important. Don’t just go and do something. Think about how you’re gonna do it, think about how you can continue to do it, cuz if you cannot continue to do it that way, it’s probably not the right way. So I think those are some of the things I go by and give the benefit of doubt. Just give the benefit of doubt. I tell, I tell businesses all the time when they, you know, if a business comes and tells us now we don’t want, you know, be active because my workers just need to save and I cannot have pay. So I asked them, if you don’t give this to them, what are you trying to solve? What are you trying to solve by not giving someone what they deserve? And they never have an answer for that, or they’re too embarrassed to give me that answer.

Sebastian Naum:
Well, I love what you just,

Sebastian Naum:
I, I love because you brought back what you, we spoke about earlier when we were talking about the waiter thing. Uh, and it’s the, how, not just the what. And I think that that can really apply to anybody out there, no matter what the job they’re doing. Um, because when you go about what you are doing with an intention, with passion, with love, good things will come to you. Regardless of what you’re doing is, uh, you know, a very basic type of job and things like that. And for a conscious leader to go about how they go about things is extremely important. So I, I love that. I love that. Well, Sabina, uh, thank you so much for being a conscious leader yourself. Uh, you truly are one and, uh, keep championing what you are doing. And in this movement, I love it. It’s wonderful. Uh, people will have access to links, uh, below when they’re listening to the podcast to access proactive and things like that and, and get ahold of Savina. And, uh, again, thank you so much for being on today. Keep doing what you do,

Sabina Bhatia:
Sebastian, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.