Love, Sex, Money and Conscious Leadership W/ Author, Kevin Orosz

Show notes as a general guide below. Somewhat in order and not written in perfect grammar because we want you to actually listen to the show!

• Kevin’s most recent hell yea moment.
• Kevin talks about conscious business and being a conscious leader
• Kevin’s thoughts on why having an optimal romantic conscious relationship, with great sex, communication, polarity…all the things. And how that ties to success in business and how that helps us be more conscious leaders in the world.
• Kevin gives us the 101 on polarity and why he finds it to be such an important subject.
• Kevin gives key feminine qualities that a man should embody without aggression
• Kevin tells what masculine qualities women should embody
• Why Kevin thinks men should always make the first move?
• Masculine vs Feminine communication. Which one is needed when?
• Kevin tells us why sex is important in a relationship 
• Let’s say that one partner finds that once every 10 days is plenty sex for them and the other wants 4 times a week. Is there a right or wrong? How do you approach that?
• Why does Kevin think having a fully open communication line about money with your partner is the way to go?
• What does kevin say to people who think they have to work till they die
• Kevin talks about Psychedelics and integration.
• Kevin talks about the benefits of complimenting your partner
• I ask Kevin why the divorce rates are high
• Current investments and crypto.
• Kevin raps on the show
• what are the top two traits for a conscious lover to embody?

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SebastianNaum.com

Below is a transcript of the video podcast created by Seb’s Robot buddy, Zekton. He tends to make mistakes so please forgive him if you find errors or some funky sounding sentences. For the real deal, watch the video or click on your favorite audio Podcast platform above! Enjoy!

Sebastian Naum:
What up guys today I had on my homie Kevin arrow for the second time in the show, Kevin is a high performance coach workshop and retreat facilitator and podcast host. He’s also described as a performance philosopher, folk, psychologist, spoken word poet, public speaker, freestyle MC, and founder, and CMO of lifestyle brand mystic misfit. Since our last episode together, Kevin has published a book called sex masculinity, God, the Tris, which is an open exploration of the unknown and the forbidden. Kevin helps men, women and couples develop practices that connect them to their romantic relationships, their purpose, and their creativity. At the end of the day, there’s no denying that being in an optimal, romantic, conscious relationship with great sex communication, polarity, all the things will be tied with more success in business and make you a more conscious leader. I love rapping with Kev guys. He is full of knowledge and he’s incredible at expressing it. Now let’s be real. The subjects of love, sex and money are ones that we can all relate to. I wanna give a special thank you and shout out to the sponsor of today. Show conscious capitalism, Los Angeles, whose aim is to connect, inspire, and cultivate conscious business leaders in LA and is a key piece of a larger scale. Worldwide conscious capitalism movement. If you like this episode, guys, please share it with a homie. Tag me on social and definitely subscribe. It truly means a lot to me. Thanks again, guys. Enjoy the show.

Sebastian Naum:
All right guys. Well, this is the first time we’re doing this, uh, that I’m doing this at least doing live on the conscious profits, unfiltered shows. So whoever’s on IG joining us. Thanks for joining us. And uh, you’ll see us kinda like looking up and down cuz we got multiple cameras and whatnot, you know, but uh, that’s how it’s gonna be. So Kev, bro, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for being on again man.

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. S it’s great to be back. I’m stoked to, uh, dive into these topics, man.

Sebastian Naum:
Love it, brother. You are the first one to be on. You’re the first one to be reinvited to the pod, bro. So you’re special human

Kevin Orosz:
<laugh>. I love it. Let’s do the let’s do the repeat.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah, brother. So I always start my shows by asking the same question, which I’ve already asked you in the past, which is when was your last O moment, but I’m not gonna ask that cause you’ve already heard it. So I’m gonna ask you when was your last? Yeah. Moment.

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah, last. Yeah. Moment for me was actually last week, um, resigned this amazing client I’ve been working with for about a year now. He’s like a web three founder, very deep in crypto and blockchain space and just watching him in real time with his corporate team, get how vulnerability and accountability and communication, especially with like a team environment is a KPI. And I got to see that in real time as I was facilitating a session for all of them. And that’s just the first thing that came up. I was also thinking about it and talking about it this morning.

Sebastian Naum:
Love that man. Congrats. That’s awesome. That’s beautiful. Uh, so ke I typically tie seemingly unrelated subjects, uh, to the subject matter of conscious business of conscious leadership at the end of the podcast, but I don’t wanna do that. I actually wanna bring it up first and, and I wanna, you know, because I wanna establish why it’s important about everything that we’re gonna talk about, how it’s gonna tie at the end here, but really in the beginning is so why do you believe that an optimal, conscious relationship with great sex, communication, polarity, all the things. Why does that matter to business or for us as being conscious leaders in the world?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah, this is amazing question. And there’s so many layers here. The basic layer I think, is what we don’t want and which is what a lot of people think works, which is com compartmentalization, right? So here’s the bucket of my business and like, you know, my vision and you know, my founder, I’m doing X, Y, Z as an entrepreneur, corporate, whatever. And that has its own energy and its own circuit. And it’s over here. And then over here in a different bucket and they don’t really talk is my intimate life, right? The most intimate thing, right? Your, your relationship, your sexuality, your intimacy, your emotion, your, you know, core needs getting met your romance, your love. And both of those are going to have to be connected consciously, cuz they’re deeply connected unconsciously already. So in my view or thesis is like let’s consciously connect them together.

Kevin Orosz:
Doesn’t mean you need to, you know, bring your relationship stuff good or bad into the workspace. And it doesn’t mean you bring the workspace stuff back home into the bedroom, but understand that the energy is connected. And if you’re successful in one, it’s likely going to predict success in the other either way. And a lot of people would say, well, it’s not true cuz blah, blah, blah. I can, you know, still be a badass, you know, closer over here. But my, you know, ex-wife hates me and blah, blah, blah. It’s like, well, yeah, you can do that. You can.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah.

Kevin Orosz:
But is it consistent? Is it an alignment and will that work long term?

Sebastian Naum:
And if you can do that and you’re still, you know, uh, performing at a high level in business and work, um, you, you believe you’re being a good leader and all that, and you have a horrible relationship at home or a whole romantic relationship. What would it be like if you actually optimize that relationship? You don’t know how much better you could actually be too. So even if you’re good, how much better could you be if that all that’s checks in? You know,

Kevin Orosz:
Totally. And this is kind of one of the angles I especially take with men, although a lot of women entrepreneurs want this too is high performance, you know, well, fully expressed embodied individuals are gonna be better at everything, including sales, marketing, decision, making strategy, whatever. Um, it’s just, it is just true. And there’s a whole nother level of the emotional intelligence side or when you’re actually intimately getting all your needs met and feeling seen and acknowledged and safe in your romantic or, you know, love container that brings a whole nother level of empathy, of compassion and subtlety into the business world because it’s gonna make you better at communicating with everyone around you, all human beings, because you are a safe place for emotion basically. And this is, this is like, you know, there’s nuance and layers here, but there is real tangible things you can measure with this, especially around, you know, social intelligence and how your team feels about you, how people wanna work with you.

Sebastian Naum:
And that’s essentially a big part or the essence of conscious leadership, everything that you’re just talking about, all of those traits. So if you’re in a conscious relationship romantically, you’re much more likely to show up as a conscious leader. You’re much more likely to run your business as a conscious business, as something that has a purpose beyond just making money. So this is the subject of my podcast. And although that’s, now we’re gonna be spending the majority of the time talking about, we’re gonna talk about a bunch of other fun stuff, uh, love sex money and how that all ties into everything, but that’s why it is important. So, uh, ke you talk about polarity a lot. So give us the 1 0 1 on polarity. What is it? Why does it matter?

Kevin Orosz:
Totally. I mean, polarity at its basic level is the interplay of two poles, right? Think about a magnet, you know, positive, negative poll, think about yin and young they’re complimentary, but also they can be oppositional they’re symbiotic, but they are different and the differences matter, right? And so when we’re talking about men and women or masculinity and femininity, and again, I want to make the distinction here. This, this energy also exists in everyone, male and female bodies. And this dynamic, when it comes to relationships will apply to same sex couples and non-binary couples. So, um, and I would invite anyone to situate yourself in the context because it’s still gonna apply. Now basic idea here is masculine energy is direct decisive, it’s strategic it’s it’s leader energy, right? We can call it alpha, whatever. And that is a manifestation of what most men will be best at, right?

Kevin Orosz:
So it makes them really successful at business war hunting, all the traditional tribal roles of the men. And it’s real and it exists. And you can, you know, experience this for yourself. A lot of it’s mental, a lot of it is consciousness and presence, but it’s also action, right? It’s decisiveness, boom, feminine energy. On the other side, the yen side, most women are gonna manifest more feminine energy on average, and this is not the opposite, but different in that it is intuitive. It’s in the moment it’s much more emotional it’s sensation and it’s very skilled, right? Think of the gatherer, the medicine woman, think about the mother, the lover, the nurturer, the social architect, the feminine energy is gonna be very good at social cues, emotional intelligence tracking the tribe, internal resource management, and also nurturing, right? There’s also a very sexual and sensual aspect to this. That is just fertility, right? If you look at the, the female body, but the feminine energy is fertility in the energetic or philosophical sense of that. It’s creativity, it’s life force overflowing, right? And these are, are in all of us learning the art of polarity, the whole idea in relationships and dating a courtship or even in a long term relationship or marriage is when you embody these and actually learn the art of the dance of these. Everything becomes better communication, sexuality, intimacy, cetera,

Sebastian Naum:
Love that. Love that. What do you feel are key feminine qualities that a man must embody?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. So as a man, especially if you’re masculine dominant in your, you know, polarity, let’s say you’re energetic, you know, the feminine, energy’s gonna be important to learn how to rest and receive. So if you need healing, you know, of any kind physical, mental, spiritual, yeah. If you need to receive information or go into a yen state, which is a KPI rest in recovery, it’s gonna be important to understand some feminine energy in yourself. Um, emotions are gonna go into this category as well and vulnerability, right? Whether that’s with a partner with other men or your village, basically your community. So it’s gonna be really important for men to be able to go into the receptivity, to open their heart, to manifest more of those, um, tendencies. And this is gonna make them much more resilient and emotionally stable and pleasant to be around. It’s gonna make them a better lover and intimate partner. It’s also gonna make them more able to connect with other people and have compassion and empathy instead of getting stuck in a ideology or a mindset that’s gonna prevent them from connection.

Sebastian Naum:
And what about on the flip side, Kev, what are masculine qu qualities for female to embody?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. So,

Sebastian Naum:
Or to focus on yeah,

Kevin Orosz:
Sure. For a lot of women, I think, especially since, you know, 1950s, sixties where birth control comes out, um, third wave feminism, all the stuff that’s been happening to kind of create equality of outcome or quality of opportunity for men and women, which they’re not the same. Um, but you know, a lot of women, a lot of female beings, you know, who are feminine led and their energy are manifesting more masculine energy, cuz they want to enter the workforce. They wanna launch a brand, they wanna be a CEO. They wanna have a business. Um, a lot of single mothers will have to manifest this cuz they’ll have to hold the masculine and feminine pole in their family. So that’s unfortunately very common. There’s a lot of single mothers and you know, in a general sense, uh, a woman will wanna manifest masculine energy when she wants to hold herself and contain herself and structure her reality. This can be financial, this can be taking care of those kids. It can also just be she’s on a quest to become the fittest, most creative, most successful, you know, entrepreneur or, you know, founder, whatever. And I see this, it it’s very common with the entrepreneurial women. I end up working with a lot.

Sebastian Naum:
And so going back to the masculine Kev, uh, I feel like there’s, there’s, uh, I feel like there could be like a bit of a fear in a lot of men nowadays to really be in their masculine and not feel like they’re being overly aggressive or, or doing the wrong thing or saying their, the wrong thing, you know? And, um, and I understand where that respect can come from, right? Because a lot of us, uh, men that are also sensitive that are very, um, open and are also very accepting. And we don’t how, how does a man step into his masculine without being overly aggressive?

Kevin Orosz:
Right. Well, there’s a difference here between the, the wording, right? Aggression is, you know, a manifestation of violence of some kind, right. It can be energetic, whatever right. And aggression has a place to set a very strong boundary. Like for example, the idea of righteous indignation or anger, like if someone is being attacked or harmed or someone close to you, aggression is important. You need to have that killer instinct and the fight energy. It’s actually important in some very nuanced situations. Most of the time in the business world or in your relationships or in dating or in your community, you’re gonna be wanting to manifest assertion. So assertiveness can be confused with aggression, but the difference is it’s attuned. So there’s attunement and awareness of the situation. And, you know, in a world of the culture wars and everyone getting triggered about everything, you know, this can get demonized as toxic masculinity, but assertion is very powerful because it sets a boundary.

Kevin Orosz:
It’s like, here’s the boundary, here’s the structure. Um, here’s what we’re gonna do. It’s gonna change the environment. Let’s make a decision and we’re gonna be assertive in a masculine expression of that. And I think when you don’t do that, what we have is a lot of confusion. A lot of men feeling like they’re emasculated, a lot of people pleaser coming out and a lot of inauthenticity actually, because this is an instinctual level, you know, energy that most men actually need to manifest to be healthy. Women can also manifest it, but men are gonna be specifically served by that energy.

Sebastian Naum:
And, and that’s interesting that you say it, uh, about in, you know, being inauthentic in that form because you know, what can not be an authentic do in terms of who you’re attracting to your life. Right. If like that’s, that’s a big deal.

Kevin Orosz:
That’s huge.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. A lot start

Kevin Orosz:
Wearing that mask. Right.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. And so in terms, in regards to being assertive, is that a lot have to do with the, the delivery of how you’re being assertive.

Kevin Orosz:
Totally the delivery’s, everything, your body language, your tonality, the words you choose, eye contact. That’s where it’s gonna start. The nuance here is who are you speaking to? And you need to understand that. So the conscious man, the embodied man, the aligned masculine is gonna be very aware of that because he’s tracking it, right. Masculine’s really good at that tracking, assessing the environment, understanding what the impact of the action is gonna be, but also taking an action assertion is needed here. A boundaries needed here, decisions needed here, make it own it, and then be accountable. Cause if you up and you will up, be accountable to that and be willing to say, I’m sorry, I apologize. I was wrong. So that’s the other side of this. I think a lot of people are afraid of, right?

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. The, I feel like the key that I’m hearing there is awareness beforehand awareness during awareness after like <laugh>, that’s the bottom line there, right? Yeah. Ke um, I was watching one of, one of your older vis about why should a man make the first move? Why is that a thing? Why should it be that way?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s gonna be a case by case basis. You know, some individuals will in a dynamic want the feminine to go first, but I think that’s the exception, not the rule, the masculine really excels at initiating. Right. And certainly in a business deal, you know, the recipient being on the receptive side, the feminist eye, whatever you want the offer to be made. Right. Think about in terms of offer or is this something we play with in comedy improv as well? This is in acting, this is in business and sales. What’s on offer and who’s making the offer. That’s a masculine, energetic, um, in the dating arena specifically, which is obviously where most people experience this, you know, there is an epidemic of a lot of folks, you know, wanting strong masculine partners. Um, a lot of women have, have been sharing this idea certainly in the conscious community.

Kevin Orosz:
I heard it a lot and it’s because the man is, you know, eating in the classic. Like, I don’t know, where do you want to go eat? You know, I’m just kind of going the flow. I’ll check in with you later. You know, what’s, what’s the plan instead of like claiming desire, making a plan, I’ll pick you up at seven, be ready. We’re going here. Boom done most feminine women. That’s gonna be really great for them. They’re gonna love that. And you can ask a lot of women that are in their feminine. That’s what they’re seeking. Um, unfortunately, you know, with texting and dating apps and Instagram and all the things, this can kind of get watered down or lost because men, some men are resentful. They don’t feel like they should go first or have to which, okay, fair enough. They’ve been hurt or had bad experiences. And a lot of women want to go first maybe for whatever reason, which you have to understand though, is the impact of that and how it actually plays into the attraction dynamics.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. That’s super interesting. So guys out there listening to that, just put that time out, man, the time the place location, put it out there. Hey look, if they don’t want that, they’re gonna let you know. Right. <laugh> let you know, you have some options. Kevin, I got a quote from you at his core. The masculine wants to be deeply respected. The feminine wants to be wildly loved. You wanna talk about that a little bit?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. You know, I’m, I’m playing with kind of some of the core needs there, you know, for men, especially in relationship, respect is big. Wanna be acknowledged for our prowess, our purpose and you know, manifesting our greatness, not just in our career, but in our, our body, our life, our emotionality, you know, that’s, that’s deep, deep, deep for the masculine. And I think most men out there who are masculine beings will find this. If you look, if you look at actually what you most want, it’s that respect from other men as well, but certainly from your partner. And it’s just a, it’s just a nuance because for the, for the feminine core essence, she wants to be in that radiant beauty. And she wants to be seen, she wants to be loved and heard and like witnessed and be held. And obviously the very like obvious version of this is physicality, physical beauty, right.

Kevin Orosz:
And any shape or form it takes, that’s just part of the feminine experience. And you can, you know, mind, yourself out of that and make all these fancy arguments around. Well, it’s not about that. It’s, beauty’s not skin deep. Yes, that’s true. But the feminine wants to be loved. And so this is with action. This is with witnessing and being seen, be held and also, you know, feeling safe that she’s love for who she is in the moment in the present moment. Cause the feminines always changing, right? She’s very volatile and chaotic in a, in a beautiful way, like nature. It’s like, it’s like, you know, the ocean there’s storms, there’s waves, it’s changing. There’s, there’s an uncertainty to it, which is actually wildly attractive to the masculine. And this is why they work together.

Sebastian Naum:
That’s beautiful, man. I love that. What about communication, Kev masculine versus feminine communication, which one is needed when

Kevin Orosz:
Right. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot to unpack there on the basic level, you know, masculine, communication’s gonna be great to set the frame or the container. So just like with that dating example, here’s what we’re doing. Here’s when here are the parameters, this is what I want. Boom, you know, penetrate with strategy with the plan, right? That’s the masculine energy and that’s extremely effective in business. It’s also extremely effective in a relationship when the man is leading in the masculine energy, um, feminine communication can be more subtle yen and receptive. It can be into the void. It can be more like this is what I’m feeling. This is what I desire to experience. This feels good. This doesn’t feel good. I would really love more of this and it’s signaling desire. So it’s much more in the moment it’s signaling how she’s feeling, moment to moment and a skilled, feminine being in her core feminine will be able to do this masterfully.

Kevin Orosz:
And this is why, you know, the queen or like, you know, you see like a Beyonce at JLo. Some of the women that are really popular that I think manifest a lot of the feminine core. They they’ll just they’ll red carpets will be rolled out for them. People want to do things for ’em. Everyone will magnetize to them. Especially masculine men will be like super attracted to them, but also other women will want to be in their presence. Cause they’re just full they’re full life force and they’re, and they’re responsive with it. Responsiveness is actually a master code for feminine communication.

Sebastian Naum:
Right on brother. Let’s talk a little bit about sex. Um, you know, I, I, a buddy of mine a long time ago, I, I just came up with this random analogy that sex is like a referee in a soccer game. Right. So the reason is that if you have a really great referee, well, it’s not gonna affect the soccer game in any way, shape or form. It’s not gonna affect the outcome of it. Right. Right. If you have a really bad referee, it’s gonna completely ruin the game. Right. So same in that sense sex. Right. I don’t think that great sex should dictate it relationship. It should not dictate it at all. Uh, the outcome or, or, or really, you know, any of it, uh, but bad sex or no sex can completely ruin a relationship. So what do you think about that? And uh, yeah. What, what do you think the importance is there?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. I mean, I love this idea of, um, you know, a ref calling a bad foul and just completely ruining the game. Um, <laugh>, you know, this is where the conversation around trauma and being somatically informed and, you know, understanding wounding around, you know, our sexuality, which is a very deep, intimate, you know, vulnerable place, maybe the most vulnerable. It’s also the most powerful it’s literally what creates life. So there’s a sacredness to it and it’s all gonna come down to communication. So there’s this idea of the trauma bond or like, you know, there’s this funny meme where it’s like, um, you know, the most men rate is actually a study. Men rate their best sexual encounters with quote, emotionally unstable women. And the meme was like, you know, women are like, you’re welcome. And why, why that is I imagine is because when the wounds are at play and sexuality, you know, think about attachment styles, think about, you know, erotic blueprints.

Kevin Orosz:
There’s always different metrics you can play with, but the energy is really intense. There’s a lot of adrenaline, there’s a lot of passion. There’s a lot of maybe drama. Yeah. And that can sexually be very charged and amazing in the short term now creating a partnership or a structure of long term relationship, or maybe even, you know, marriage, you’re having kids. It’s gonna be very volatile if there isn’t a playing field back to the softer metaphor of rules, agreements, boundaries, and communication. So sexuality is, you know, the barometer of where the relationship is at. I think in a lot of cases,

Sebastian Naum:
Hmm.

Kevin Orosz:
If you make it at the center, which it is at the center, even when it’s not, and you know, Freud and a lot of these psychoanalytic traditions talk about it like this, we are, you know, primal beings we wanna. And you just, there’s no way to avoid that. It’s always there, like sexuality is present and this is the idea of sexual tension and that energy. So in my mind to kind of answer your original question is sexuality is extremely important. It can make or breaker relationship communication about it and bringing it to the table. And just as importantly as you know, where are we gonna live or what is the relationship gonna look like? Or your, you know, history of your parents, all the things you’d wanna discuss with a partner, sexuality needs to be approached in that way and taken very seriously and not taken for granted. Right?

Sebastian Naum:
Hmm. Yeah. I agree. Big time, ke what happens? You got a couple working with you and one of the partners feels that having sex once every 10 days is perfect. It’s great. And then the other one feels that they wanna have sex, uh, three, four times a week and they feel that that’s healthy. How do you approach that? Is someone right? Someone wrong?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. This is a, this is a big one. Um, comes up a lot. Yeah. Libido is different for everyone, for sure. Um, when the couple is actually in their embodiment, so this there’s a lot that goes into that, right? So that means they’re physically healthy. Cuz a lot of this stuff is endocrine hormonal based, right. Which is diet, sun, exercise, cold, hot exposure. There’s all these physiological factors that are gonna affect that. And it’s energetic. So it’s emotional, it’s based on attraction. It’s based on these things. There’s gonna have to be some kind of meeting in the middle and this is where self-pleasure is amazing. And obviously just because you’re in a relationship, doesn’t mean you, you don’t, you know, love your own body. And so that’s gonna be important to have that conversation. Um, I would guess in a lot of situations though, the person with the less libido is going through something or his feeling unexpressed in a way now there are people that just have less libido.

Kevin Orosz:
There are individual differences, but on average, if the relationship was really good, there’s emotional connection, intimacy, the communication’s clear, you know, all other things being equal. The, I, I imagine the less libido partner would actually like to be having sex more. Yeah. And this comes into the conversation of, well, are they getting their needs met? Are they actually feeling, you know, orgasmic and alive and like they love having sex versus are they seeing it more as you know, is this the only way we connect? Is this a duty or obligation? It needs to look a certain way. Right. So there’s a lot of stuff that can get in the way of that.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. I’ve definitely found that myself, uh, personally, or even just hearing the stories of, oh, you know, when I was in ex relationship, I actually didn’t care to have sex or I hardly wanted sex. And now that I’m in this relationship, it’s, I’ve like a totally different person, you know? And they’re like shocked that they’re feel like a completely different person. That’s what you’re talking about. It’s those needs being met. It’s a communication it’s, it’s that it’s that, that energy that’s actually changing physically the libido and the desire is gnarly. Um, ke I find that, um, moneys such an interesting topic, man, dude, I love talking about money with close friends and my relationship. Um, I really, really do. And I mean I’ve personally had all the scenarios myself. I’ve been in romantic relationships where money is not talked about at all, or it’s talked about a little bit sometimes it’s cool. And then other times a little bit too much. And then I’ve had it where we’re just, it’s completely out in the open, everything, every aspect of it. And, and I feel like that’s definitely the right way to go. That’s epic. Right? I mean, and why is it so taboo? Why is money such a taboo subject for so many people? And why do you think that if you agree with me that it should be talked about and it should be all out in the open.

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. I do agree with you on that. Um, you know, this is the holy Trinity or the dark Trinity of humanity right now. And it plays out no matter where you look money, sex and power, you can power can translate as influence. It can, it can translate as you know, leverage. There’s a lot of ways, power is a little more nuanced, but money and sexuality are where most trauma is where most emotional attachments are, which most yeah, stories are. So narratives and beliefs and stories that a lot of which are not serving us or civilization. They’re all, they’re all here because that’s where the energy is. The energy of biology is in the sexuality. It’s in, you know, that that drive and the energy of trust or coordination between humans. You know, if you really go into what is money, money is in energy. It’s keeping score.

Kevin Orosz:
It’s, it’s a form of trust and value. That’s exchangeable cuz we’re in communities and we gotta figure out stuff it’s called the coordination problem. As soon as you have two humans, we have to figure out how we’re gonna relate and money is what’s doing that. And you know, for better or worse, we all have a personal relationship to it. So money carries a lot of emotional baggage. I know I’m still in this work unpacking that. And that’s also something that in coaching you have to go into is just, you know, relationship to money. And that often, especially with, um, business minded, clients becomes a big issue because your parents had a view of money, right? A lot of people in scarcity, even people that were quite wealthy numerically might still be scarce in scarcity emotionally or how they relate to money. Right. And one of my amazing mentors even had this term, you know, money dysmorphia, just like we have body dysmorphia. A lot of people feel a certain way about their bank account and they, they treat it that way. And then that comes into the relationship. Cause the whole conversation of, you know, provision splitting money, 50 50, how do we relate to money? That’s gonna enter the relationship in a deep way. And this is why there’s so many divorces. Unfortunately that money becomes the main point of contention and battle, right?

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. Yeah. There’s so much about it. And there’s also, I feel that being really open about not just whether it’s splitting or how to approach the money that you’re making all that, but like also talking about what is exactly coming in, what you’re desiring and really putting that out there and understanding why you desire it. You know, why, what it is that what’s your mission with that for both partners. And I feel that also allows it. Um, it allows it for supporting creative ideas cuz at the end of the day, I feel that even if the partners have completely different careers, um, you know, one doesn’t necessarily care much about what the other one does. I think that even if somebody like one is person is not an expert at all own their partner’s career, I think they can come in with a totally different mindset and a totally great creative ideas on how that person can make a shift. And that could actually cause ’em to make more money. And if they’re not sharing things about money and talking about their missions and their passions and their goals, that doesn’t happen.

Kevin Orosz:
Right. And, and this is, this is true intimacy, right? If you’re gonna be open with a person and vulnerable and be in that loving, like, you know, ride or die, like we’re in this relationship level, money has to be there because most people are basing a lot of their waking time around money, acquiring it. Yeah. Earning it, investing it, spending it, et cetera.

Sebastian Naum:
And if you go back into the, the, the polarity aspect of it, is there something there in terms of the masculine and the feminine energy, because you have a, you know, a giver and a receiver is that say, does that say, I don’t know how to really even ask the question, but it, it is that mean that the masculine energy has to be the provider and that in turn turns into the masculine energy must make more money.

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. I mean, this is, this is a big question and uh, it comes up a lot. It’s gonna be an individual basis as with a lot of this stuff. The short answer is it depends. The energetic, philosophical answer is the masculine is generally in provision, right? And the facts are, is that the masculine core is gonna be better strategically on average, more able to take on stress and because of the war like, or trade, you know, you can look at the hunter archetype, the trader, the businessman, the general, you know, what those have in common is they’re gonna be really good at solving problems at scale. And that’s why, you know, this idea that, you know, all businesses, male dominated, you know, the CEO statistics, the all the statistics around companies and organizations, you know, it’s, it’s all male dominated. And some people think that women should be in equal positions.

Kevin Orosz:
It’s like, well, the women, yes, we should create equality. I, I personally believe we should create a quality of opportunity. Awesome. But forcing a quality of outcome doesn’t make sense. And this points at kind of a truth that you’re gonna have to discover for yourself if you’re listening to this, that the masculine is provider in terms of provisioning. So whether that’s providing food, you know, whether that’s providing protection physically, whether that’s providing financials. Now that doesn’t mean that has to be that way in your relationship. You might be the provider emotionally or psychologically. You might be the provider sexually creating intimacy and safety. So there’s different ways to bring that to the table in a relationship. Some women thrive, um, being high net worth individuals and high performance, you know, alphas in business from a feminine place. But they’re masculine is the one doing that most of the time.

Sebastian Naum:
That’s what I, I wanted to point out. I wanted to point out somebody listening, is that how you’re flipping and switching from the words from man woman masculine feminine. So that doesn’t mean that it’s not meant to be a woman, but that the woman in her masculine is the one that’s doing this aspect of it.

Kevin Orosz:
Usually, you know, there are women in their feminine, I think in the coaching consulting healer space that are quite successful because you know, a lot of them are teaching this and they’re very feminine embodied, and yet they’re very successful financially. Um, but that works in that space. I think it also works for artists, some artists, if you’re more in traditional finance, if you’re in, you know, tech, if you’re in a lot of the major industries that are booming right now, if you look at the, the female bodied beings that are crushing it, they are quite masculine energetically. And I would say that’s across the board and for good reason, right? Because those qualities are super successful in that environment. And it’s amazing. Um, when you come back to the bedroom, when you come back to the relationship, this is where the art of understanding how to ship cause most women that are very masculine oriented in business want to be more in their feminine, in sexuality, in their relationship home life. Right? Sure.

Sebastian Naum:
And, and right there, Kevin, something that we actually talked, I think a little bit back two years ago on, on the first recording, but it’s the importance of what, how important is it to bring feminine qual qualities into conscious leadership? How can I for somebody to be a conscious leader? I think it’s really important. It doesn’t matter if you’re a man or a woman, you can be the CEO. And if you wanna be a conscious leader, you have to embody feminine qualities along with your masculine qualities as well.

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. I mean the, the goal here, the esoteric goal of a lot of like religion and philosophies, like the alchemical marriage is how they refer to it in hermetic. Tradition is basically the union or the dissolving of opposites inside yourself. Right? So you think about this as enlightenment to just go way out there. And that means masculine, feminine, coming together in a magical harmony or balance. Um, I’ve never seen it personally. I’ve never seen a human being manifest this. I can imagine what it feels like or looks like as a philosopher, but most people are gonna have to manifest some dynamic equilibrium between them. And I think the more dynamic that equilibrium is the better leader you’re gonna be. So yes, short answer is yes, we want more feminine, energetic qualities in all kinds of leadership, whether that’s business, government, community relationship, because that’s gonna make you more empathic, intuitive, sensitive to emotional intelligence and the community and the tribal actual energy, whether you’re running a team or you’re coaching, or you’re running a family, or you’re the, a community leader in government, whatever it’s gonna make you way better at leading because it’s gonna attune you to a lot more signal and information, which is what the feminine energy is really, really good at.

Kevin Orosz:
And that’s why they are masters of knowing who’s into what who’s in, what relationship how’s this person emotionally feeling, where are they at now? The, the other side of this is as a leader, you’re gonna have to take action and be decisive. So as a leader, you’re still gonna need very strong masculine energy to actually take action, execute on that information and data.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. I love what you said there about the signaling and seeing all of the signals. And I think the flexibility aspect is so important. A good leader has to be flexible and, and then take the action in the direction that they want to go. Right. And then just continually continue to take the signals, be flexible and take the action. So definitely a huge dance there of both energies to be, to be an epic conscious leader. For sure, for sure. Uh, ke this is something I hear all the time, uh, with a lot of girlfriends of mine, uh, girls that are friends, um, and guys say this too, but a lot of them say, I’m looking for somebody who is emotionally available and has done the work. And I hear that a lot. And so one of the things that I, that I say to a homie will be like, let’s change, done the work to doing the work. <laugh> first of all, because you’re gonna be doing the work until the day we die. Okay. That, that’s the thing. Bingo. How do you feel about this? Do you feel that in the quote unquote conscious community or more spiritual people, do you, do you hear this a lot? This phrase, oh,

Kevin Orosz:
On, repeat on, repeat and done. The work is telling us something interesting. Cause why are they putting it in the past tense, a hundred percent agree with you? You never finished the work. Um, we’re doing it a whole, this whole lifetime. And if you believe in it, maybe we’ve been doing it multiple lifetimes. Now done the work though probably implies that they want a certain level of emotional, spiritual maturity period. So done the initial work, right? So that means you have awareness of your blind spots, AKA your shadow, or where you are, you know, vulnerable to triggers patterns, unconscious behavior. So you have some awareness about that and maybe some tools that you can navigate that, um, you also are probably aware of how you play out in a relationship dynamic. That’s where the emotional availability paired with done the work comes from cuz a lot of us are navigating from past relationship trauma. So we were in relationships where it didn’t work and they hadn’t done the work and there wasn’t emotional availability. So of course you wanna move in the direction of, yes. I want that. Now the, the flip side to asking, like I just want partner that da da, da, da, da is your question. Should be, am I fully doing the work and am I emotionally available to potential partners? You gotta flip that one. That’s how you’re actually gonna be successful. Cuz you’re gonna put the ball back into your court.

Sebastian Naum:
That’s right. And you attract the love that you are at the end of the day. So, um, yeah, I love that. I, I, I find it fascinating because more and more people are becoming more conscious about a lot of things that they want to attract and how they want to be in a relationship. And uh, we get on a high horse, like this is what I want. I want somebody who’s this, this, this and that and has done all the work and this and that. And you’re like, whoa, like it’s, it’s not about being realistic or unrealistic. It’s like you said, like, you know, focus on yourself too. And then, and then I think what’s most important there is having the growth mindset. You know, if somebody’s got that growth mindset, most likely they’ve done some work and they’re willing to do more and continue to do it.

Sebastian Naum:
And as things come up, they’re gonna continue to be willing to do it. And um, that kind of reminds me of something there’s, there’s so much work being around psychedelics today. Right. And so, you know, when people do psychedelics, you have these epiphanies and you see something, something comes to a huge vision. You come out of that. You’re like my biggest takeaway was that I noticed this, this and that. And I saw this and I saw that. And we’re, we’re talking about in a, um, in an environment where there is an intention behind this where it’s more so ceremonial, right. That’s, that’s what we’re, that’s what we’re talking about here in terms of that. Um, and I feel like this is, and this may just be like, what I, what I see is that, you know, it’s like not 10% of it is the awareness and seeing it, but 90% of it is integration and where’s the, you know, there’s a lot of non integration happening. There’s a lot of awareness without integrating. How do you feel about the importance of integrating what we learn? What we see are these epiphanies that we have.

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. This is a big conversation. And as, um, psychedelic assisted psychotherapy and medicine becomes decriminalized and then it hopefully legalized and created as a huge industry, which it already is, you know, it’s popping up everywhere. Um, this is gonna be the main conversation, which is, well, let’s talk about the indigenous way, right? Especially like things like iowaska have thousands of years of use, you know, um, if you’re living in the Amazon and you’re a part of the Shipibo or the YWA you’re drinking iowaska, you know, maybe every weekend, every Saturday, cuz it’s like a psychic, like swap meet for the tribe and it’s used in a ceremonial way as part of your lifestyle in the jungle and in the, the ambiance of that medicine and that teacher plant. So that’s a whole nother universe that living in downtown Los Angeles and hiring a shaman or facilitator to drink iowaska, to work on your marriage, that didn’t work.

Kevin Orosz:
Right? Yeah. So you have to understand the context that you’re coming into a plant medicine experience and, and what you’re seeking to get out of the experience and what it’s actually gonna look like. Because most of us that are, you know, with these medicines now and using them, a lot of people using them recreationally a lot of the people using them for healing and therapy you’re right. 90, percent’s gonna be, how do you change the patterns? How do you create new behaviors and habits and integrate what you learned, the epiphany ecstatic state and bring it into the grounded reality of your day to day and the grounded reality of your relationships. Cuz what’s the number one thing people are working on in the psychedelic experience, mostly relationships to self first to parents, past partners, people we’ve hurt people. We love people we want to make right with

Sebastian Naum:
That’s right. Or even relationship to career, to money, to purpose, to mission. Um, and you can’t transcend if you don’t integrate. So I think there needs to be a lot of importance, a lot of focus put on integration. I, I really hope to see a lot of that cuz I just, I just feel like I hear so much about like awareness and things coming and then it’s like, you know, where’s the change kind of thing. And I’m sure that’s that’s that goes into many other subjects. You know, I just happen to bring it with, uh, in this case with psychedelics. But um, going back to relationships, Kev, you know, you, you create a ton of content. You’ve got a book, uh, I’m a content creator as well. And I think that, and sometimes, you know, we’ll get like a, like a thank you or a Hey, by the way, you know, this meant a lot.

Sebastian Naum:
And I’m sure that to you as well as for me, is like, it’s pretty amazing when you receive a little something. And I think a lot of people don’t give credit or, or express because they assume that you hear it all the time. And if we take that into relationships, particularly longstanding relationships, how, how much do you see that? That’s something where you have somebody that’s been together for a long time and they just, they don’t hear the little compliments or the little thing from their partner because the partner just assumes that it’s already there. They already know how I feel about them. How important is it to say it vocalize it?

Kevin Orosz:
Yes, this is, this is massive. And on one level, the comfort comfortability and the assumption because you’re just in so much intimacy or built up time together is sacred and that’s beautiful. Cause you can actually get to a deeper layer of like, you almost don’t need to say it and it’s gonna depend on your love language or how you prefer to receive love. Right, right. Um, but you’re absolutely right. This is one of those little shadows and missteps is not continually bringing the affirmation and the acknowledgement to the masculine. Right. Letting him know that. Wow, I appreciate your prowess. Thank you for solving that problem. Even if it’s a little thing around the house or a tiny thing, just little things masculine wants to be respected, acknowledge for his prowess. He wants to feel needed. And he’s a problem solver. Right. Makes him feel awesome. You know, for the feminine acknowledge her beauty, acknowledge her heart, acknowledge her with how she, she wants to be loved. Right. This is the classic, like buy her flowers, take her out, you know, buy her gift, you know, there’s, there’s the kind of stereotypical ways which still work by the way. There’s stereotypes for a reason. Yeah. But it’s the little subtleties of giving and receiving love for the smallest things that actually add up in the long term relationships to be the game changers.

Sebastian Naum:
Absolutely. By the way, I recently started buying flowers for myself. Um, nice. I don’t know where that came. I mean, I know where it came from. It came from my relationship, but uh, it, it just, I started getting more and more comfortable with flowers. I started noticing how beautiful flowers were, how there’s such an incredible expression of beauty and nature and they’re vibrating so beautiful. And then I see them around the house and I’m like, oh man, I think I really like flowers. I’m I’m just gonna start buying flowers for myself. <laugh>

Kevin Orosz:
That’s amazing. Flowers are extremely dope.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah, I do. Just, yeah, its just one of those things where like, as, as much as I allowed myself to have feminine quantities qualities, that was one thing that was like, nah, nah man, like flowers not chill again for a while. You know, I was like too cool for it. And now it’s like, just give me, bring on the flowers man. I freaking love it. Um <laugh> anyways, Kevin, you know, we, uh, divorce rate has been circling around 50% for a long time. Do you feel that these conversations that we’re having all of this awareness that’s being brought by people like yourself by other creators, by having more therapists, more coaches, more people being aware and having a desire to have improved relationships. Do you think this is something that’s actually going to improve? Is that, is this a something a percentage we’re gonna see decrease?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah, this is, this is an interesting one. I don’t think we’ll see it decrease until the mainstream conversation becomes around trauma inform somatically informed, compatible relation relating, and it’s gonna involve polarity. A lot of people, you know, even the word polarity, it’s like, what the is that? What are you talking about? Aren’t these old school gender roles, you know, you’re toxic, this is patriarchal. I get these comments almost on every video or content I post today. Um, which is a sign of the times, you know, we’re in a culture war and you know, lot’s up for grabs right now. Um, Rome is, is burning in some sense. And I think it’s actually exciting cuz that means we can really push the boundaries and change the game in a lot of these areas. Um, yeah, the fourth is marriage is an institution. It’s a contractual agreement. It involves the state. It involves finances and the way that whole system, which that that’s another podcast. But I just wanna speak to it for a second. That whole system probably needs to change on some level. So, and I’m not an expert on that, but I’ve dabbled in it. And it’s freaky when you go down that rabbit hole of the, just the legal side of marriage. Now let’s talk about the actual emotional bond of a committed relationship.

Kevin Orosz:
Marriage was developed when people lived to be like 30 and women were property. So even the idea of marriage and happily ever after is a Renaissance medieval construct. And you can look all this stuff up. Esther Perl is an amazing resource for this.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah,

Kevin Orosz:
You can, you can trace that back to 500 years ago. This is recent now long term partnerships and mate ships between men and women as a symbiotic survival strategy. That’s ancient. So that’s, I think where the rubber meets the road divorce rate is just a measure of the mainstream box that men and women and masculine feminine in relating have been put. And of course it’s gonna fail at above 50% at this point because the underlying parameters are bankrupt emotionally in my, in my view. Mm. And we’re seeing that right. We’re seeing it play out.

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah. So you’re, you’re basically separating, you’re significantly separating divorce from, you know, failure in a relationship or a mateship. There are just two different things. One is based off of marriage, which is created by society versus a long term ancient mateship and success there. However that it measured in a different manner, perhaps.

Kevin Orosz:
I mean, divorce is measuring both. So they are definitely connected. Um, there’s strong, not just correlation there’s causation there. I would say. Yeah, the distinction I’m just making though, is that the reason the relationship is failing and then the divorce becomes a big thing is almost compounded by the legal part of it. So the relationship actually failed probably long before the divorce,

Sebastian Naum:
Right?

Kevin Orosz:
And you see this all the time, the relationship in terms of juicy, alive magnetic, you know, sexually available intimate relationship has its own lifespan. That then gets measured by divorce because two people, you know, brought their lives together and their assets and their family, whatever. And then that has to be, you know, chopped up or whatever divorce rates are so high because people are not practicing the art of relating and communication and their parents didn’t know how, what they were doing and their parents didn’t know. And so we’re, we’re at an intergenerational, we’re kind of getting the bill with the divorce rate of an intergenerational, you know, divide between a masculine and feminine. Why can’t we figure this out, even though we’ve been doing it, all of human history,

Sebastian Naum:
Getting the bill. I like that. Yeah. I like that. Um, ke uh, unrelated to love. There’s so much talk is going back to the money, but just kind of closing out here, but recession, there’s so much talk about recession and there’s so much fear around it and it’s some say it’s already happening and some say, it’s not really. And there’s what we do know. There’s a ton of inflation. There’s a lot of money printing. That’s a fact. And I mean, I’m originally from Argentina, so I know what inflation is. It’s, Argentina’s literally one of the worst in the world today and across many times. And since I was born and um, now we’re seeing it. So it is the first time I see my American friends actually seeing it in action and being like, oh, I can’t, you know, this exact same thing that I paid this for literally eight months ago is now this. And so on. What, what is your personal take on, on that? Whether it’s in on inflation and like what to do, like how, how do you invest your money today? What do you do with your money? Because keeping it in the bank is, is not good. Cassius king ain’t, ain’t the thing anymore. CAS is trash now basically <laugh>

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah, this is, I love this conversation because over the past two years, and really the past, you know, probably 16 months, I’ve been deep in web three. Um,

Sebastian Naum:
Okay.

Kevin Orosz:
Learning, practicing, investing, and actually working with an amazing, um, company, high vibe network. And so here, here’s what, here’s the, the me take the macro and I’m not, you know, none of this is financial advice. I’m a student trying to figure out all this learning from the greats. Um, we are in full scale financial, economic warfare on the planet because the, the global reserve currency, which sense Breon woods and the end of world war II has been the S D by the way, is yeah.

Kevin Orosz:
Is at risk. And we’ve got all kinds of stuff going on. We’ve got China and Russia forming Alliance and gold backing their currency. Um, you have, you know, crazy sanctions, all this stuff geopolitically, but the core idea is what are we gonna use for value? Meanwhile, banks and even BlackRock, the biggest asset management fund on earth is looking at Bitcoin. And this whole interesting thing about the blockchain ledger in Satoshi Nakamoto, which popped out, you know, back in 2008, the last recession that we had, that was a big one. We’re gonna have to change the way we look at money in finance, you know, during 2020 alone. I mean, I forget the exact number. Someone will check it, you know, the fed printed 20% of all USD and circulation at thin air. That’s not backed by precious metals. It’s not backed by an asset that you can taste or live on like water, you know, gold, silver, real estate, et cetera.

Kevin Orosz:
You know, we we’ve divorced currency and cash, right? The federal reserve note from anything valuable in the real world. And so on a philosophical level, it’s bankrupt on a numbers level. I think the inflation numbers are just the Canary and the coal mine. I think we’re gonna start seeing, I, I don’t think we’re gonna have catastrophic failures and like, you know, crazy like the great depression, the world’s globalized now. And we have tech on our side and creativity, innovation are way more quantum like that, that couldn’t really happen in the 1930s. Right. Um, it just was different. So I don’t, I’m an optimist. I think we’re gonna get through this is gonna be awesome. Yes. Cash is trash on one level, cause it’s literally losing value and in a recession, if you look historically the most millionaires are made the greatest transfers of wealth happen.

Kevin Orosz:
So in that sense, you know, if you follow like Ray Dalio or, you know, Kevin O’Leary or some of these, you know, financial, big dogs who are now bullish on blockchain also, but understand traditional finance stratify like hardcore cash is king in a recession in terms of liquidity, cuz you want to be buying and investing. So personally, if I had, you know, millions of assets under management, I’d want to be looking at amazing real estate in hubs that are catching up with global trends in the states. I look at Austin and Miami as maybe some of the main ones because of the influx of innovation entrepreneurship there, you know, real, estate’s amazing. You wanna have water rights, mineral rights. You wanna have land that’s airable ideally, so you can have food. Um, I’d also be looking deeply at Bitcoin and Ethereum. I wouldn’t, I won’t go past them because they’re the, the number one and two and they have the most traction and use case right now. And you know, precious metals, I don’t really know as much about, but certainly there’s value there. Um, and that’s, that’s kind of what I would be looking at. I also would be an entrepreneur. I would be innovating and creating a business or art or yeah, adding value to the world that is in line with my passion cuz that’s the ultimate asset is actually getting paid to do what you love.

Sebastian Naum:
Love that Kev. That is, that is awesome. We could, we could rephrase that. Cash is trash if you just leave it sitting in a savings account. Exactly. That’s the trash is not. If you have a bunch of cash and you do something with it, <laugh> for sure. For sure. Kev dude, you’re an epic freestyler. You got some great raps. Do you have anything you wanna throw down about love, sex or money?

Kevin Orosz:
<laugh> I love that. I actually was in the studio recently here in Bali, um, wrapping about web three, but this is a cool one I was playing with. I’ll just spoken word it, you know, decentralized eyes flip the script on stratify lies. Satoshi’s vision was to reprogram value with precision. The mission of blockchain is to lift the nations, give power back to the people, topple the steeples of financial oppression and actually create a grass roots flipped on the narrative of recession. That’s a, that’s a piece of that, but

Sebastian Naum:
Yeah, love that brother. Love that. Love that. So good Kev, man. I love having you all Kev. I, I asked, I asked you this last time I asked all of my guests, uh, what are the top two traits that are conscious leader must embody. And I’m gonna flip that and ask you what are the top two traits that a conscious lover must embody today?

Kevin Orosz:
Yeah. Excellent question brother. And really honor to be here with you again, by the way. Um, yeah. Top two traits are gonna be adaptiveness and certainty. And what I mean by adaptiveness is that you need to learn how to dance between masculine and feminine. More specifically to own your dominant pole. It’s not about being 50 50 and being able to switch all the time. It’s more about manifesting the best parts of your masculinity or femininity, no matter what kind of body you’re in and just own that, you’re gonna be a way better lover in the bedroom and you know, out shopping. Um, certainty is a part of that because it’s like once you know yourself, once you have self-awareness and knowledge about your triggers and traumas and also your desires and kinks and what you want, experience and love, be certain have conviction and just go after it, tell the person what you want. Tell him exactly what you need and own it man, or woman, you’re gonna be way more successful as a lover. That way,

Sebastian Naum:
Love that. Love that brother will anybody listening on the paw, you’re gonna have all the links to follow Kevin, subscribe his stuff, buy his book and just listen to all the beautiful things he’s got to say, Kev, my man, you truly are a conscious leader, brother. I appreciate you being on. Keep being you. My man. Keep being you love you my man. Thank you. Appreciate it.