In this podcast episode, Sebastian Naum and Jason Goldberg, TEDx Speaker and award-winning entrepreneur, dive into a profound discussion on personal growth, self-leadership, and the entrepreneurial journey. They candidly share experiences on the mix of excitement and fear when launching new ventures, and stress the significance of embracing vulnerability. The conversation covers the impact of storytelling and metaphors in personal transformation, the commonality of imposter syndrome, and the value of authenticity in leadership. Jason underlines the potency of joy and play in daily life, along with exploring the potential of AI to complement human empathy.

LISTEN to this pod right here by clicking play or choose your favorite listening platform below. You can also WATCH the video podcast below that! Check out the show notes at the bottom to get more details about the contents of this episode. Enjoy!

Show notes as a general guide below. Somewhat in order and not written in perfect grammar because we want you to actually listen to the show!

Topics Discussed:

  • Logic’s perspective on last times
  • New Year’s resolutions discussion
  • The etymology of “resolve”
  • Overcoming weight loss challenges
  • Potential versus capacity
  • Self-leadership orientation
  • Conscious leadership and business success
  • Business Consciousness and Long-Term Success
  • Conscious Business and Reputation Management
  • Finding Your Mission and North Star
  • Defining Personal Mission and Purpose
  • Embracing Multifaceted Identity
  • Simple and Transformative Wisdom
  • Metaphor and analogy for transformation
  • Dealing with stress using the snow globe analogy
  • Imposter syndrome and vulnerability in leadership
  • Collaboration with NASA and the lesson learned
  • Intimacy Over Information
  • Redefining Joy
  • AI and Mindset
  • Incorporating Play into Work
  • Problem-solving Vision
  • Traits of a Self-Leader
  • Integrity and Courage
  • Recognizing Integrity
  • Conscious Leadership


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Below is a transcript of the video podcast created by Seb’s Robot buddy, Zekton. He tends to make mistakes so please forgive him if you find errors or some funky sounding sentences. For the real deal, watch the video or click on your favorite audio Podcast platform above! Enjoy!

Sebastian (00:00:01) – We’re just gonna start rolling. Uh, we’ll start rolling now after that piece right there, brother. But thank you for saying.


Jason (00:00:08) – That, though. I really appreciate it. We were just talking about that at the Mudd thing and the level of dad joke terribleness that she allows me to do. I love that unless I were watching some show and she goes, oh, that girl looks like Gwen Stefani. And I said, more like Gwen Stefani. And she does this to me. She goes, yeah, and I love it. She’s just there. It’s fine.


Sebastian (00:00:25) – She’s there for it. And then my dad jokes, I love that, bro. Even though they were very bad. Um, when we started recording last time. Yep. Everything went to shit. Yes it did. All the technological things happened. Yeah. And we just said, you know what? This is just not it. We’re just gonna have lunch and enjoy ourselves. So thanks for being flexible with that, bro. And thanks for being here.


Sebastian (00:00:46) – I’m stoked to have you.


Jason (00:00:47) – It’s the only way I’m flexible. My joints are screwed, but I’m so happy to be flexible for you. But you know, we really did though. We really practiced surrender. Like all jokes aside, we really did because it was. It’s frustrating man. Like, I don’t care how much in a personal growth you are, when technology especially doesn’t work, you just want to throw your own head through a wall.


Sebastian (00:01:04) – I freaked the fuck out. Yeah, but no, but.


Jason (00:01:06) – You did it. But you didn’t freak at it. You did. You were. You were chill. You were still worried about, like, my experience and still trying to make it work. And like, you handled, like, a problem. Thanks, bro. Seriously, I.


Sebastian (00:01:15) – Appreciate that I appreciate that. With that, I’m going to ask you something that I always ask my guests. Yeah. What was your last oh shit moment. And that could be a good thing.


Sebastian (00:01:23) – It could be a bad thing. It could be anything. What’s the last thing you think of when you’re like, oh, shit.


Jason (00:01:27) – Oh, shit. Oh, that just happened. Now, uh, my last oh shit moment. It’s a really good question. Um. I think maybe when this. So you you know, because we’re homies behind the scenes but this this new business that I’m building and it’s my first time having a product based business, I’ve always been in services kind of stuff with all my entrepreneurial stuff. And there was this oh shit moment of like, oh, I’m actually, I’m doing this like I talked about it for a while and it was like, you know, I can make notes. I had to Google doc that was 74 pages long with all the stuff I was going to do with this business. Yeah. But then like I, I got a formulator and then I got a contract manufacturer and I’m like oh shit. Yeah I’m like I’m I’m doing I can’t the point of no return I’m doing this.


Sebastian (00:02:08) – Now is that when you started like maybe like the first time you wired or sent money out to.


Jason (00:02:13) – Dude like, yeah, when I signed the formulator and I had to pay this massive amount of money in three minutes. But as the money went out, I’m like, oh shit. Yeah yeah yeah. But but it’s great right? Because it’s like it’s you know what? A friend asked me this question a long time ago that I really loved. When’s the last time you did something for the first time. And I keep that in mind because, like, there aren’t a lot of times nowadays that we do something for the first time.


Sebastian (00:02:36) – Especially as people who love to form good habits or whatever. Right. And all this thing and it’s like, you know, you’re not doing that very often. Yeah. It’s crazy to think about if you knew when you were doing something for the last time.


Jason (00:02:49) – Oh, that’s. See, that’s an interesting one. I remember there was this, uh, show, I think it was called.


Jason (00:02:54) – I want to say it was called rapture. It was on Netflix where every episode was like a different rapper. They follow, right? And of course, you know. Yeah. And there was one episode with logic, you know, the rapper logic. And he, he walks into and they’re following him around with the cameras doing the behind the same thing. And he walks into a rehearsal because he’s about to do his first, like, world tour. And, you know, the dancers are kind of there and they’re like setting up and stuff, and the cameras are in front of him right as he’s walking into the studio so they can catch his reaction. And he said, he literally said to them something to the effect of, like, I need you to move out of the way because I need to see this because like, I always remember this because there’s going to be a time where I don’t do this again. Yeah. So like I want to capture how I feel doing this because there will be a last time that I get prepared for a tour.


Sebastian (00:03:38) – That’s wild. I was I had a cousin was telling me like, her kid was really starting to get taller and heavier and bigger and she being so difficult to, like, pick him up. Now I wonder when it’s going to be the last time I pick them up. I was like, oh wow, that’s fucking gnarly.


Jason (00:03:52) – It’s it’s big man. Anyway. Yeah it’s big.


Sebastian (00:03:54) – Yeah. So we’re recording this in January, right? You got the whole like New Year, new me New Year’s resolutions. And it’s become actually very popular to shit on New Year’s resolution and make them really uncool. And it’s putting whether your goal oriented or not, goal oriented. Everyone shits on New Year’s resolutions now, right? 100%. So I still like New Year’s resolutions or setting visions. Personally, I like more to back and think about what I’m grateful for, all the things that I grew and experienced and all that stuff. Yeah. Um, what do you think about New Year’s resolutions and how do you turn resolutions into impactful, like habits and actually transformative habits?


Jason (00:04:30) – It’s what I should do right now is right before we started recording, I just looked at my phone one last time, and I just got an email from you talking about resolutions.


Jason (00:04:38) – So I’m on your list. So I just got the thing, so I should we should pause so I can read that and have a really intelligent answer. So great timing for that. But you know, I feel the same way. I’m not I’m not I’m not big into resolutions as maybe a lot of people think of them. But I also don’t shit on them because like anything that gets you to be more intentional and purposeful about what you’re doing. Correct, great. I don’t it doesn’t.


Sebastian (00:04:56) – Matter what date is either. Doesn’t matter. But if you do it on the first every time, great, 100%.


Jason (00:05:00) – That’s fantastic. But look at the word resolution like and the base of that like having resolve, right? Like when you have resolve, there’s a commitment to having resolved there. There’s a there’s an inner confidence to having resolve. Like when they say like develop, resolve. That means you can you can believe in yourself, you can believe in your convictions, all those kinds of things. So for me, it’s like, what are the beliefs that I want to take into the world? What is it that I’m convicted about the media I’m not expressing enough of?


Sebastian (00:05:24) – I’d never even wait.


Sebastian (00:05:25) – So that’s what it means? I have no idea. Resolve.


Jason (00:05:27) – I mean, resolve does. Yeah. But like, I don’t know if that’s actually the base, but when I hear resolution, I think resolve. Because if you think about if you resolve a conflict, you have now had a resolution, right? So they kind of go together. And so that’s my thing is like, where do I have resolve in my life? Where do I have in my life?


Sebastian (00:05:41) – Interesting. I never thought about the etymology of the word.


Jason (00:05:44) – Yeah, I always do that. Dude. That’s great. Always look at etymology because we have these stories of things. Yes, I was just talking to a client yesterday and she’s in the entertainment industry. She’s a showrunner and she makes good money. And one of her things that really lights her up is being able to take care of other people. Right? She loves that she has friends that she’s had for 25 years that don’t make as much money as she does, and she’s been blessed to make some good money.


Jason (00:06:03) – And so she, you know, will take them on a trip or do whatever. And she said, but she worries she has some self-judgment because she feels like there’s some part of her that thinks she’s superior to these people. Right? And she doesn’t make a judgment of them, but she feels like, oh, like, I hope they don’t think. I think I’m superior, that I think I’m this or that. And I asked her, is there any part of you that maybe thinks you’re a you’re a little superior? And she goes, well, yeah, I guess I do. And that’s a bad thing to her when she said it. Right. Yeah. So I said, well, let’s look at this. Right? Without even looking at the etymology, instead of looking at superiority as a character trait when we look at it objectively. Right. So if, if you have a mini Cooper and I have a massive SUV and we have seven friends that all want to go to dinner together, objectively the SUV is superior to the mini.


Jason (00:06:48) – Not because the mini is a piece of crap, not because it’s it’s a bad thing to have a mini, but based on what it is that’s needed, there’s there’s a gap there. So what if for her, for example, superiority means that her bank account objectively has more money than their bank account? Objectively correct. And that’s fine. It is. It is currently superior based on the fact that we want to take a trip as a, as a group together. And so just like and that totally changed her mind. She was like, oh, well, that’s okay. It’s okay for my bank account to be superior. It doesn’t mean character stuff.


Sebastian (00:07:17) – Doesn’t mean that you’re spiritually superior or something like that. Exactly. So interesting. It’s such a natural thing to do. I think, um, to feel superior than others. Like, for example, like if, um, if I have the strength in me to do a, you know, a, a cold ocean dip every morning and my friend can do it right, then I’m like, oh, I’m stronger, you know, I’m mentally stronger and this and that.


Sebastian (00:07:44) – And that sounds and it’s like a very subconscious thing. It’s not like I’m choosing to think that way. Right. And I’ve actually thought about that to that concept because I kind of had to roll back and be like, wait, now I’m judging myself for thinking that I’m superior and so interesting. So spiral. I don’t even know how we got there. But um, anyways, yeah, dude, you were rocking £332 which this sexy beast. Haha. Can you imagine this sexy human right here at 330? It’s hard to imagine because the change is so drastic, and it feels like such an excruciatingly difficult thing to lose that much weight. Was it that effing difficult for you, or actually kind of a smooth process once you started sort of stacking habits?


Jason (00:08:27) – Yeah. You know, it was it was really tough. And what I’ll say is that the, the mental part of it was way tougher than the physical part of it. Okay. Most things uh, but but even still. So, so as a part of my weight loss journey, uh, I had bariatric weight loss surgery in 2011.


Jason (00:08:40) – Right. So now we’re looking at 13 years, almost 13 years ahead. And there was a big part of me that felt a lot of shame around that. Like, I didn’t want to tell people I was even very tentative about telling my family because it’s.


Sebastian (00:08:50) – Like you were cheating or something.


Jason (00:08:51) – Yeah, there’s like a stigma. It’s like, oh, you took the easy way out. You couldn’t do it on your own. And I’d been big my entire life, like I was. I was already the chunky kid. By first grade, I was £250 by the time I was 15, which is when kids are really loving and accepting and would never judge you based on your appearance. Uh, so that was really fun. And and then by the time I was in my late 20s, I got up to £332. And so I had had just kind of this whole life of dealing with this kind of thing. And there’s all kinds of excuses, right? There’s, you know, there’s the it was too hot to go outside and play in Florida.


Jason (00:09:18) – So I’d stay inside and watch video games or play video games. And mom didn’t cook, you know, we would always have takeout and fast food. And so I had bad habits. Right? It’s not like it wasn’t rocket science, but I had tried all different things to try to lose the weight. And it was never successful. So I finally looked at weight loss surgery. I researched it for a year, really to go deep into it and realize that it’s not a magic bullet. It’s a fantastic tool. But there are, there is. There are great metaphorical graveyards of people who have had the surgery, lost the weight and then gained it all back and then some. Right, right. And so so I had this family. Yeah, it happens. Right. And no judgment of this is really tough often. And I was I was really blessed that the surgeon that I went to, they were a center of excellence. And they actually have you take a psych evaluation before they want to make sure that, like, just like if you have a transplant, they want to make sure that if you get a new liver, you’re not going to go drink your ass off, right? Because what’s the point then of giving you a liver? Right.


Jason (00:10:06) – And so they really got into the psyche of like, are you actually ready to do this? And there were other little things they did to to kind of make sure. So the surgery obviously, you know, surgery is its own thing. You have to recover from that. But then then creating a new life after that. Right. And changing your relationship to food, changing your relationship to movement, like all these different things. That was the heavy lifting, like, no pun intended. That was the heavy lifting for this whole thing. And so what I always say is when people say, how did you lose 100? £30. I said I didn’t, I lost £1 130 times. Right. Because that incremental I can get behind incremental this big massive. And I know we talk about it in personal growth all the time, have massive vision. Fantastic. And that can be really effing intimidating when you wake up on a Tuesday morning and you feel like shit. But I can do just for today.


Jason (00:10:51) – Just just for today. Of that I can do what needs to be done.


Sebastian (00:10:54) – Jft. That’s fucking awesome, dude. It’s just like, you know, I want to write a book that means I have to write, like, you know, 23 chapters or whatever. Like that’s wild. Start with a one chapter or even start with just like a paragraph, right? Yeah. The incremental that and I love the concept of um, like potential versus capacity potential. Is this very like it’s this thing that’s like your ultimate potential. Like when do you rate your potential? When you fucking die, right? Like literally right. Like literally. That’s the potentially the time, no pun intended, when you reach your potential. Right. So I think if I’m like, am I reaching my to my fullest potential can be, for me at least can be very like daunting and just overwhelming. So I’m like, okay, am I, you know, operating in my fullest capacity that could help me reach that potential? It’s a form of incremental.


Sebastian (00:11:41) – Absolutely.


Jason (00:11:42) – I love that, man. That’s a it’s a really good shift, man, because I do think that in some respects. And, you know, again, we’re in the personal growth world. So it’s not that I love this stuff, but I think personal growth as a whole, as an industry has really become a thing to play on people’s weaknesses and insecurities. And sometimes I think that, like, you’re not living up to your fullest potential is almost like a shame based way of motivating people to do more capacity, though. That’s like, that’s not capacity is not a question of character. Capacity is a question of just will. Like I have curiosity, do I use it or do I not? And that thing I want, I want to be focusing on my will, not my character.


Sebastian (00:12:15) – And one day maybe playing big and maybe knowing that your capacity as like at Mt. and that day you literally just need to take a bath and chill and that’s okay. That’s okay. And that’s going to help you, you know, for the next day and be like, I got recharged.


Sebastian (00:12:28) – You know what I mean? It’s right. Yeah, yeah. So, Jason, I love your, uh, international bestseller, Prison Break. It’s a great book. I love it because you can just literally pick it up and read two pages, and it’s it’s a great nugget of information in one, you know, basically chapter. And so for anybody out there, definitely check it out. Love the book. And um, and it’s very funny too. It’s just like you are. But my dad.


Jason (00:12:49) – Just.


Sebastian (00:12:49) – A lot of dad jokes in there as a.


Jason (00:12:52) – Dad yet, but I’m preparing it’s.


Sebastian (00:12:53) – Yeah. You’re gonna be so prepared by the day, I love it. So what is you talk a lot about the concept of self leadership, right? So leadership is dead. What a self leadership.


Jason (00:13:02) – Yeah I mean it’s you know self leadership is is is really an orientation right. It’s like it’s orienting your your thoughts your actions, your your uh your belief systems, everything around what it is you actually want to create.


Jason (00:13:15) – Right? So instead of living a life by default, you live a life by design. Okay? Right. And really being more intentional, like we were saying with resolutions, right? Being more intentional, right. Bringing more purposeful intention to what it is you’re doing. And so whereas I lived the first 30 years of my life really as kind of a prisoner of circumstance, right? Whatever’s whatever’s going on in the news or in the economy or in the white House, like, that affects me. Like, good thing happens, then I feel good, bad things are happening. I feel bad, and that’s natural. That’s that’s.


Sebastian (00:13:40) – The most common way.


Jason (00:13:41) – To think 100%. And it doesn’t mean I don’t still do that sometimes because I’m a human as well. But when I can have enough awareness in the moment that I am choosing because it’s always a choice, I am choosing to be a prisoner of circumstance instead of stepping into self leadership. That’s the win. Because even now, if I have moments where I.


Jason (00:14:00) – I’m doing that thing where I’m being a prisoner of circumstance and I have enough self-awareness to say, you’re totally being a prisoner right now, right? This is you’re choosing this. It doesn’t even mean that I shift into self leadership. But by having that conversation, at least I know this is not from out there. I am choosing. If I decide to stay in this, that’s fine, but just know I’m choosing that that’s not coming from out there. And so it’s it’s even a win to still be a prisoner. As long as you know, you are the one who’s choosing to be a person.


Sebastian (00:14:25) – I love that. So it doesn’t mean that you shift it into self leadership. Not always. At least you’re aware and you’re choosing to stay in that. That’s right. That’s super interesting man. I love that concept. So I talk a lot about being a conscious leader and that how that ties to executing business consciously. You’ve coached tons of people, uh, just really like high powered individuals. Do you see a tie between being a conscious leader and winning at the game of money and business?


Jason (00:14:53) – 100% so yes and no.


Jason (00:14:56) – Okay, here’s the challenge with that. Is that. Business is so incentivized to have instant gratification, instant results, you got to crush it this year. You got to do 200% better than you did last year, not 20% better than that. Yeah. And so the people who are conscious it may take longer for that ramp to get to where you want it to go. But the sustainability of that is, is what if you’re in it for the long haul? That’s great. So if you’re in it for a cash grab, then being super conscious may not work for you. Yeah, right. But that’s because your motivation is fucked anyways. So if you actually want to bring something into the world, a business, a service, a product that actually elevates humanity, it’s humanity plus, not humanity minus. It’s actually there for humanity. And I want to do it for a sustained amount of time. It’s not a two year thing with an NFT that I hope to sell and by intention, but it’s something that I want to be the problem that I’m focused on fixing for the next 5 to 10 years, then if you’re not being conscious, you’re screwed.


Jason (00:15:49) – You’re not going to attract the right investors. You’re not going to attract the right customers. You’re not going to attract and retain the right talent. It’s it’s so intertwined and it’s not some spiritual woowoo thing. It’s literally about being conscious. Like, think about the word conscious and the opposite of conscious unconscious. Imagine you were unconscious in your bed trying to run your business. How well do you think the business is going to do it? It won’t. It won’t do anything. You have to be conscious. You have to be awake. You have to be alive. You have to be aware of what you’re doing and the impact of what it is you’re doing. So how could how could that not be a direct tie to long term success? And whatever you’re doing, I.


Sebastian (00:16:20) – Love that man. I love that. And it is key to understand that it’s very much it can be short term, like you could get lucky on certain things, but like most of the time, like you just have have to be in the long run.


Sebastian (00:16:30) – A lot of times you’re making the right calls and the right decisions that maybe mean less margins and it just maybe mean, you know, um, just in terms of like the providers that you’re working with and speed of delivery of things. Right? So all these things can also equal to like long term success. Yeah. And we’re now seeing for the first time actually like looking at data for like last, you know, 15 to 20 years. And then you’re looking at quote unquote conscious brands or brands that are doing good or using business as a force for good, or even just standing for something, like when it has to do with like something that’s, uh, like politically or culturally. And they stand for something. People actually connect with those brands. Whereas before it was, first of all, CEOs and leaders were very much behind the veil. Nobody really knew. It was just kind of this big company. And like, nobody stood for shit. You kind of have to be politically correct. So we don’t stand for anything.


Sebastian (00:17:23) – And that shit’s like just going out the window. And obviously, you know, you and I live here in this sort of like the Mecca of health and wellness and all the woowoo things and all the conscious things. So we’re kind of used to it. But, I mean, this is still a tiny, you know, piece of the whole pie in terms of capitalism and business out there in the world. So.


Jason (00:17:39) – Well, and that’s because we’re we’re going against a system that’s been set up as the opposite of that for so long. Correct. And so it doesn’t feel like people who are behind the veil, or who do want to do conscious business have historically not felt like that was allowed, because that’s like then oh, you must be anti profit correct. Be you must be anti-business growth. You must be anti returning shareholder value. Correct. And it’s just it’s all bullshit. And so when you really look at that, I mean even, even the decision to be uh, more conscious in business as it relates to reputation management, if you are a conscious business who stands behind something and then something really fucked up happens, like in the media, or there’s a misstep by your company or some senior leader does something wrong.


Jason (00:18:18) – People who are who are connected to you because you were a conscious business will go into the fire with you totally. If you don’t have any connection to anything and you fuck up, people are would love to take you down. Look at how many people get canceled all the time and try to connect the dots between people who are canceled and people who actually stand for something. People who stand for things don’t get canceled. That’s true. They may get ridiculed, but they can’t get canceled because they stand for something. And people want people who stand for something.


Sebastian (00:18:40) – I mean, a great example of that actually is Dave Chappelle. If you think about Dave, like, there’s no comedian that just fucking goes to town on everything and everyone.


Jason (00:18:50) – Equal opportunity.


Sebastian (00:18:51) – That. Yeah.


Jason (00:18:53) – I mean, that’s the one stage.


Sebastian (00:18:55) – Right, that we.


Jason (00:18:55) – Should allow.


Sebastian (00:18:56) – All of that kind of saved it in a way, because otherwise every comedian would just be canceled 100%. So this guy just went and stood for that art of being like, yo, I get to shit on everybody.


Sebastian (00:19:05) – Yep. You know, and.


Jason (00:19:07) – That’s that’s it. He shits on everybody, shit on everybody. Because there’s another comedian that I watch that I really love, this guy, Daniel Sloss. I don’t know if you.


Sebastian (00:19:13) – I don’t know.


Jason (00:19:13) – I got really, really great, really awesome. He has a special on Netflix called jigsaw. And he, he has this one part and he’s he can be kind of raunchy and kind of like, yeah, super inappropriate. So of course I love him. Uh, and at one point in the show he says, he said some joke and people got like offended. You tell people like groaned or something in the audience. And he said, I just have one request through the rest of the show, either be offended by all the jokes or be offended by none because he said, don’t laugh at this joke and say, well, that’s funny because that doesn’t affect me. Correct? But then another joke happens. Oh, but that’s not funny. That happened to my uncle.


Jason (00:19:42) – It’s like either be offended by everything or be offended by nothing.


Sebastian (00:19:44) – I love that, I love that, yeah that’s great. So I know that was like a weird like sort of transition there, but ultimately it’s about standing for something, you know, and I love that. And so in business and leadership, standing for something, you have something called the entrepreneurs edge method, which is something that you you trademarked. Actually, um, what is, you know, being an entrepreneur. It’s hard as fuck, dude. It takes a lot of resilience. There’s a lot of ups and downs. Um, is there a favorite tool from this method that you have that you find to be one of the most impactful ones for leaders? Yeah.


Jason (00:20:15) – I mean, so the model breaks down to the three ls, right. So it’s it’s leadership lens and longevity. Right. So leadership is about self leadership also the leadership of others and also thought leadership right. So it’s all about all three of those. The the lens part is really about kind of your message and who you’re who you’re trying to attract, who you’re talking to, who do you really want to serve.


Jason (00:20:34) – Yeah. And then the longevity piece is like, that’s all great. But just like we were talking about the sustainable results, what are the systems, what are the beliefs? What are the things you need so that this thing lives beyond you. Right. Yeah. Because I think when we’re starting off as leaders and entrepreneurs, I think the phase one is kind of, uh, we’re in learning mode. Phase two, we kind of go into leadership mode. And then to me, phase three is legacy mode, right? Like I want to build something that that outlives who I am. Right. And so that’s tough. It’s really it’s really tough. And that’s why it’s so important to have like that Northstar to have that vision. Yeah. Right. So if you’re going to do anything at the beginning of the year resolutions, let it be the vision that you want to have for life. So I think that’s one of the major tools that it sounds super basic, but really having people key into like what is your Northstar? What is the thing that’s a driving force for you? I know we’ve heard it so many times.


Jason (00:21:16) – Simon Sinek start with why all these things? There’s a reason that things are cliche, right? It’s the reason that things keep coming back over and over again. It’s because there’s some truth to that. Yeah, right. So if you keep hearing over and over again, if you don’t have a vision for your life, good luck with creating the life you want. It’s because there’s truth to that. So a lot of times it’s just starting with the vision piece.


Sebastian (00:21:35) – So. You’re all about sort of this, um, simple yet transformative wisdom. Hopefully. So. I love that style of yours. Actually, Jason, something that could be very simple for some and very difficult for others is exactly that. You’re talking about finding your mission. Or that North Star. So for some people, it’s like the clear. It’s clear as day. This is my mission. This is my purpose. And they wake up every day and they have that North Star. And it helps them get through everything. And I think for a lot of people, that’s first of all, for a lot of people, that sounds like bullshit.


Sebastian (00:22:10) – So no big deal. But for a lot of people, it’s just very difficult. How do you find clarity in what your mission actually is? How do you find that mission and that purpose so that everything else can fall into place?


Jason (00:22:20) – Yeah, it’s such a great question. I, I, I beat myself up so much because I remember walking into these rooms, especially when I first got into like personal growth and yeah, coach and all this and I walk into rooms and meet people and they would say like, oh, you know, what’s your big dream? What’s your big your big vision? And I didn’t I knew I wanted to help people, but I didn’t have a thing. And so I just started listening like, well, let me just listen to what other people say, right. Maybe I can come up with something on the spot that makes me sound like I know what the fuck I’m talking about. And then I would hear people like, you know, my my dream is to completely transform the education system.


Jason (00:22:52) – And somebody else says, my dream is to touch a billion people, to make sure they’re eating healthy. I’m like, Jesus fucking Christ. I don’t know if I’m going to do here. And so I’m just like listening to these big, massive things. And so I would go back to the drawing board. I’m like, I don’t it’s not like, is there something? Am I not a visionary? Like, do I not have vision in mind? Is this am I not cut out for this if I don’t have this big thing? And then I had this moment. It was when I was in the book tour for Prison Break, when Prison Break came out and I was doing all these different, like TV, morning talk show, interview kind of things, new show interviews. Yeah. And I was on a good day. Sacramento. It was one of my last ones. Right. Yeah. And and all the interviews are interesting because you have some anchors that you can tell didn’t even crack the book at all, like one of them called called a jailbreak on the air and said, A prison break.


Jason (00:23:31) – And it’s okay. So you didn’t.


Sebastian (00:23:32) – Get the title.


Jason (00:23:33) – You can get the title in a book sitting on the freaking table in front of us. But, but but this one on Good Day Sacramento, there’s a guy called Cody Stark who was the guy that was interviewing me. Super sweet guy. And you could tell he actually at least read some of it, or had somebody read some of it. Yeah. If he felt prepared. Right. Yeah. And so we had this really fun interview was great. And I remember they did like a little teaser thing where they said, hey, you know, we’re going to we’re going to shoot, we’re going to show you and say like, hey, coming up next, we have Jason Goldberg, the author of Prison Break. So just stand there and smile, right? That’s what the authors do. Stand there and smile. Then we’ll go to commercial, then we’ll come back. So they kill me, and when they kill me, I have my shoe off and I have it next to my my face.


Jason (00:24:06) – And then they say my name and I turn to the camera. I’m like. And then I go back to talking to my shoe, and it’s just like everybody’s like, what the hell’s going on? And so then we come back, we do the interview. At the end of the interview, they’re taking the mic off me and everything. And, uh, and Cody comes over to me. He goes, he’s like, man, you know, I don’t know what it is about you. He’s like, but I just feel so much joy being around you. And he’s like, the people in the green room said it. The co-anchor said even the AV people that were like miking you up, they were like, yeah, I just feel like happy and joyful around this guy. And I was reflecting and this is I was still living on the East Coast at this time. I was reflecting on the flight home from from California, and I was thinking to myself, like, wait a second. Like, instead of me focusing so much on what I’m going to be known for, what if I focused on what I was known for activating in other people, right.


Jason (00:24:51) – Giving them permission to feel and joy came up and I said, okay, well, that’s interesting. And so then I started thinking about vision, and for whatever reason, it came to me is that my vision for my life, my mission, is to leave everybody I meet with at least 5% more joy than when I found them. And so for anybody struggling with the purpose question or the vision question or the mission question, think about that. What’s one thing that you would either either leave love to leave the world with 5% more of, or 5% less of, and have that be the core? Because if that’s your foundation, you start from there. Then whatever you build, whatever product or service or business, if you layer that on top, but you start with the thing you’re making people feel, that’s a really easy way to get into purpose.


Sebastian (00:25:28) – Man, that is powerful.


Jason (00:25:30) – What would it be for you off the top of your head, you know? Well, it might be talking there.


Sebastian (00:25:35) – I actually had it written down. I was going to talk to you about the more joy. Uh, first of all, I just want to tell you and tell everybody that that is so true about you. Every time we hang out, you know, I, we go out and have a coffee or have lunch or whatever. And I always feel at least 5% more joy, brother. I feel.


Jason (00:25:54) – It from you too, though.


Sebastian (00:25:55) – I. Oh, thank you. That’s a beautiful thing to have. Uh, as you were saying that, I mean, the very first thing was, um, that, um, as, as a young kid, always, no matter what I noticed growing up that. People always opened up to me about everything very easily, even if they didn’t open up to other people. Um, and that’s how I kind of like into high school. I started realizing I’m like, oh, like, maybe I’ll study psychology because I love understanding human behavior and people just open up to me.


Sebastian (00:26:23) – And then I realized, I don’t really want to, but I don’t want to be a therapist. Like, I don’t want to be a psychiatrist and all that stuff. But anyway, I got obsessed with the kind of the study of human behavior and just connecting. So I think one of my biggest values is connection is true connection with humans and having depth. And I think that, um, you know, one of those things about, you know, being able to make people feel is definitely is leaving them. Let’s say 5%, as you were saying, is more inspired to, you know, live life more consciously, right? Um, or simply just, um, just heard. Right? Just like, you know, just feeling heard. I think that that’s something that just the first thing that comes to mind, I think I definitely want to go back and really look at it and analyze it and think about it. But I know I make people feel that way. I make them feel heard, which in turn gives them like joy, inspiration, hope, whatever that may be.


Sebastian (00:27:14) – Right?


Jason (00:27:15) – It’s funny you say that because the word that came up for me, for you was safety. Um, right. Really? Because people who feel safe in your presence, who feel safe to express, who feels safe to feel, who feel safe to to tell you their big dreams, to feel safe to say like, I want to be more conscious. Like that’s that’s a ripple effect thing, man. So people feel more safe. And you can also flip this. Right? So for me it was 5% more joy. But if I really went underneath the surface it’s 5% less suffering, right? Because I suffered so much growing up and I still have suffering. We all have suffering. So if I if I know that the, the, the introduction of joy is the removal of suffering. Yeah. Then like they kind of go together. Yeah. And for you and, and what you do and how you make people feel safe. The amount of people who just don’t feel seen don’t feel heard.


Jason (00:27:57) – Yeah. Don’t feel like they be themselves, don’t feel like whatever’s important to them, it actually matters to anybody else. You providing the space for them to really own that, to step into that. Yeah.


Sebastian (00:28:06) – Massively powerful I love that. Thanks. That’s very interesting. Yeah. I’ve never definitely never thought about it in that capacity. In terms of safety, I can definitely tell you that, um, I love the feeling that, you know, even I have nursing with you or certain other people when you feel fully safe to because we’re these sort of multi-dimensional humans that that are all the things. And we can just we can be get super woowoo and spiritual. We can talk about all the money and business things, and then we can talk about, you know, romantic forms of love. And then we can be also complete quote unquote douchebags and just talk about the most dumb ass bullshit things in the world and just laugh our asses about it. And I feel like for a long time, I judged myself for having all of these multifaceted aspects of myself.


Sebastian (00:28:50) – And I’d be like, no, like, I can’t act this way. I can’t say this stuff that could be considered that maybe if I said it on TV, I’d get fucking canceled, right? Right. Yeah. Because I’m now this type of person and I have so much personal growth and I’m more spiritual. Thus I can’t be, you know, bullshitting about this. And it’s like, fuck that, man.


Jason (00:29:06) – Why we have why cut off? Yeah, we were talking about this before. Like, why cut off parts of yourself, right? Totally. I’m I’m very spiritual. I love personal growth. Yeah. I love, you know, human optimization and business and everything else. And you know what? I love trash TV. And I love McDonald’s hash browns. And I love a lot of shit that you’re not supposed to like if you’re fucking spiritual and into personal growth. But that’s okay. I’m a I’m allowed to be petty as hell one day and damn near Ghandi the next.


Sebastian (00:29:29) – I love it.


Jason (00:29:30) – Because it’s the spectrum of the human.


Sebastian (00:29:31) – Experience. Absolutely. I fucking love that shit. Love that shit. So permission to all of you permission, permission to be a total piece of shit. And then Gandhi the next day, I love it. Oh, that’s great man. That’s great. So, um, simplicity. Um, so simple and transformative. Simple and transformative. Right. Do you have, like, a favorite sort of piece of, like, simple wisdom that you feel has been the most impactful for people a lot of the time?


Jason (00:29:58) – Yeah, man. There’s you know, I work a lot in metaphor and analogy, man. You know, we work well in story. We learn well in story. Uh, yeah. When we’re trying to transform, trying to become better or whatever. Uh, we can be very resistant to this stuff because our ego shuts it down, right? Yeah. And what I’ve learned over time, and it’s just not anything original to me. But what I’ve learned over time is that metaphor, analogy and story almost kind of tell the ego.


Jason (00:30:22) – You can chill out like the ego says, oh, it’s like a metaphor or a story. Okay, well, that’s not going to do anything, okay. I can fuck off for a little while.


Sebastian (00:30:29) – Interesting.


Jason (00:30:29) – And it kind of opens the space so that I can actually land. And so when you tell to somebody, you know, uh, you need to meditate and calm down when you get all antsy.


Sebastian (00:30:37) – Yeah, yeah.


Jason (00:30:38) – Yeah. Right. But if I say, hey, you know, what? Have you ever experienced shaking up a snow globe before? Like one of those little, like, Christmas kind of snow, right? And the snow is flying all around. Sometimes when we get really anxious and we get really stressed out, it feels like we’re standing in the middle of one of those snow globes that’s been shaken up. I can’t even see my hand in front of my face because it’s just everything just whirling all around me. And then I think as the entitled human that I am, that it’s my job to grab every piece of snow.


Jason (00:31:03) – And if I can just get every piece of snow to be put on the ground, then I’ll be happy again. I’ll be, I’ll be. My anxiety will be gone. But if I was really doing that inside of a snow globe, running around, grabbing every piece of snow, every piece of snow I’d put in the ground, I’d be kicking back up with my feet because I’m running around. And so I constantly have snow swirling all around. So if you really want to get snow to settle in a snow globe, what do you do? You set it down. Down and within 30s it naturally does its own thing.


Sebastian (00:31:28) – Yeah.


Jason (00:31:29) – And so this is an invitation of the next time you get super stressed and anxious, picture your inside of a snow globe, shake the damn thing up, make it crazy, and just pick a piece of snow in your head. Close your eyes and pick a piece of snow and just watch it and you’ll see it’ll kind of go this way, and then it’ll kind of catch a little bit of the water and spin up and do a little circle and a little twirl, and then boom, it hits the ground.


Jason (00:31:46) – And then I pick another piece of snow, and I watch that one, and that one also kind of swirls around as it’s own little thing. Nothing for me to do, nothing for me to get engaged or involved with hits the ground. And if I do that for 30s or a minute, my entire nervous system comes down. Now, which of those two approaches do you think somebody’s going to listen to? Hey, when you’re stressed out, you need like, just calm down, just calm the fuck down. Or the story about a snow globe. Which one’s going to stick? Yeah.


Sebastian (00:32:08) – That’s incredible. It really brings your guard down. Yeah. Because it’s not about you anymore. Snow globe or whatever other analogy. That’s what I love, that that’s a beautiful, simple, yet transformative. Really cool. I do it all.


Jason (00:32:20) – The time for myself. Yeah. Oh, that’s snow globe. It’s one of my go tos.


Sebastian (00:32:23) – Is that right? Oh, yeah.


Jason (00:32:24) – I have snow globes in my house, like physical ones.


Sebastian (00:32:26) – So I have.


Jason (00:32:27) – Different places sometimes I’ll literally if I don’t want to imagine it, I’ll just do it in real life. I’ll shake it up and I’ll just watch the thing and like, there’s a piece and I’ll just watch the thing. It’s do and then 30s later I’m like, I.


Sebastian (00:32:37) – Is that before or after you take the mushrooms?


Jason (00:32:39) – That’s during that story. Yeah. That’s. That’s dirty. Yeah. I thought they were functional. I didn’t realize they were sick. That’s my.


Sebastian (00:32:45) – Fault. Oh. That’s funny. Um, bro, you’ve been, um, you’ve had your own courses online, Valley University, for a long time, which is epic. Uh, you share the stage with amazing people like Jason Silva and Vision, who’s the, uh, founder of Mind Valley and people like Domingo Rees. Agreements. Did you ever get imposter syndrome when you were first sharing stage? And for instance. I mean, like.


Jason (00:33:10) – I’m not supposed to laugh.


Sebastian (00:33:10) – I’m sorry. I have never I don’t know if I’ve ever met anyone who shared a big stage, including myself.


Sebastian (00:33:16) – I’ve had a couple of opportunities to be in front of a lot of people where that someone hasn’t felt imposter syndrome. Yeah, and I feel like most people feel that that’s incredibly inadequate to feel, but I think it’s normal as fuck.


Jason (00:33:27) – It’s 100% normal. And I would venture to say that if you don’t feel imposter syndrome, sometimes you don’t care enough about what it is you’re doing, right? Because you think you are so good at everything you’re doing, and that thing makes a difference and makes a big impact in the world, then you’re leaving yourself no space to get even better, to get even more impactful, to reach more people, to be of more service or whatever. The thing is for that you want to do. And so to me, imposter syndrome is almost a gut check, right, of like, don’t get too cocky, don’t get too arrogant because you think you know it all. And then somebody cuts you off in traffic and you yell at them, yeah, it’s supposed to be a spiritual leader.


Jason (00:34:00) – Okay, let’s it’s okay to feel the imposter syndrome. So I actually think it takes a lot more courage to a lot more courage and bravery to admit that you feel imposter syndrome than to trick yourself into thinking you don’t.


Sebastian (00:34:11) – And then how do you shift?


Jason (00:34:13) – Well, so you. So here’s the funny thing about posture syndrome the way to shift out of imposter syndrome is don’t be an imposter. Aha! And what I mean by that is don’t go on stage and say, every single day in my life, I’m the most spiritual being and nothing ever rocks me off my core, and I’m the most perfect and I’m levitating off the stage. Can you see my feet aren’t even touching the ground right now? And that’s when you’re an imposter. If behind the scenes you just had like, this massive fight with your girlfriend, and instead of really listening to her, you said some shit that you regret and now you’re angry.


Sebastian (00:34:41) – Or to even speak about. Pretend to be passionate about something that you’re actually not just hungry, right? Like just simple.


Jason (00:34:47) – 100%. So. So while I don’t get behind vulnerability as a strategy and really dislike that, yeah, social media has been great at creating.


Sebastian (00:34:55) – Vulnerability and thinking about.


Jason (00:34:56) – That. But I think actual vulnerability actually humanizing yourself, we’re talking about like in front of an audience, right? Like actually humanizing yourself, whether it’s on stage or off stage. That’s a beautiful way to not be an imposter. Who could call you out for saying that? You don’t always get it right. What if I go up on stage and say, hey, guys, I’m teaching this thing. But like, just so you know, I don’t always get it right. Do you think someone in the crowd is going to be like, I knew.


Sebastian (00:35:17) – It, I knew you were.


Jason (00:35:18) – An imposter. No I’m not. I’m telling you, I don’t always.


Sebastian (00:35:21) – Get it right. And they just let their guard down when you said that. That’s it. Yeah, I love that. Actually, I remember talking to my, uh, my mom, who was also a, uh, amazing coach, and.


Sebastian (00:35:32) – Fuck yeah, shout out. Um, and I remember talking to her about vulnerability and about kind of like how it’s become so popular to be vulnerable and just sort of being like, you know, crying your fucking ass off with this selfie camera and all that stuff, which, hey, if you want to do that, that’s fine. But I remember sort of asking to be like, what? What is the strategy with vulnerability, right? Like as a leader, let’s say you’re leader of a company or whatever. And it’s like. When is it good, right, to talk about vulnerability or share. And we sort of talk through it and um, well, we came through at least, you know, through, you know, kind of her wisdom and kind of me going back and forth with her with like, you know, it’s almost like an at least for a leader, an ideal way to be vulnerable can potentially be after the fact and being like sharing like, hey, you know, sort of like either to your employees, to your teams or whatever, like, hey, eight months ago or 12 months ago, or I was really going through the shit.


Sebastian (00:36:27) – And this is how I sort of came through it. Right? So you’re still you’re not like, invincible. You’re you’re admitting it, but you don’t have this selfie crying on camera while it’s all happening. Right? I don’t know, it’s one method of no.


Jason (00:36:40) – I think that’s great. I think especially if you’re if you’re if it feels really uncomfortable to do that and it’s most uncomfortable. I mean, it’s uncomfortable everywhere for for most people including myself. Correct. But but especially in a leadership position. Right. Because you feel like, oh, these people count on you. And so them counting on you means you have to be infallible, like, that sucks whether you’re a parent or a leader. Like if you have to be infallible for other people to follow you or to trust you, that’s a lot of pressure to trust entirely. So I think there is a way. So I think that’s a great way to do it. If it just feels really uncomfortable, just like, cool, I’ll share with you when I’m out of this shit.


Jason (00:37:12) – And that still builds connection with people, correct? I think there’s also a way to do that. In the moment. If we’re talking about leadership, for example, that if I’m really scared about business and this has happened, I remember this happened with my team. We were doing a thing in Portugal, like a little team meeting a few years back, pre-COVID in 2019, I guess it was. And and we were all together and dude, I was actually really scared about what was going on in the business at that point. There were some real big changes going on in the industry. There were, you know, changes with Facebook ads stuff. A lot of stuff was changing, and I started feeling myself get really afraid of like what was happening in the business. Now, traditionally, you would say, well, you never share that with your team. I mean, you know, you go to a therapist, you go to a coach, you go to a mentor, whatever. Which I agree that you shouldn’t dump on your team.


Jason (00:37:50) – I think you should have a place for that expression. But I was just really open with them. And I said, listen, guys, you know, I’m a little scared of what’s been going on here. I find myself feeling like a little terrified of what the future might look like with the business. But here’s what I, you can count on me for. I’m going to stick with this. I’m going to have your back, and I know you’re going to have my back, and we’ll figure this out. But but please know, like if you see me kind of a little anxious, it’s because I am. And I want you guys to know what I’m going through. And when I did that, the outpouring of love was like, thank you so much for sharing that. And they said, you know, we got your back. Don’t worry. And they were like, they went double time. And within like an hour or two, they created a new offering that came out of nowhere that then ended up being a very successful offering for us.


Jason (00:38:29) – So I think there’s a way to do that where sharing it, but also saying, like, I still got this and I still need you, but yeah, I’m feeling I’m feeling a bit in the shit.


Sebastian (00:38:36) – The key in that is the delivery and also sort of restating to where you’re still standing strong in where the weather is, that mission or whatever that we were talking about, as opposed to just like, hey, I’m scared, I’m losing my shit. I don’t know what the fuck to do, right type of thing. Right. So in that delivery is important. Um, you had a collaboration with NASA, NASA, NASA, ESA, NASA. When you worked with NASA.


Jason (00:38:58) – Did you ever say the movie was a road trip? No, not a road trip, no. Super troopers.


Sebastian (00:39:02) – One of my favorites. Okay, College movie.


Jason (00:39:04) – Road, road around the guy, super high and he kept the word road. Sounds weird. Good. Sorry, I just.


Sebastian (00:39:10) – Thought NASA.


Jason (00:39:11) – And NASA.


Sebastian (00:39:12) – Yeah. So. Um, how did that experience contribute to your understanding? Sort of like innovation and collaboration? Because I don’t really know what you did with NASA. Yes.


Jason (00:39:23) – Well, me and NASA are far back, so we were slaughtering these pigs one day and they said, let’s go to space. And I’m like, why are spices that they were up and Clarence House.


Jason (00:39:30) – Sorry. Uh, so so NASA was really cool. It was it started off as a, as a school project when I was doing my MBA. I was in grad school, and my one of my mentors had a relationship with the people over at NASA and in Kennedy Space Center. This is when I was in Florida. I went to grad school and, uh, and they basically said, hey, the technology commercialization department at NASA. Essentially what happened was NASA was no longer going to space. Right? I’m super oversimplifying this. NASA was not no longer going to space. Congress says, why should we give you money if you’re not going to space? And NASA says, oh, no, we’re going to commercialize all the stuff we did in in the space world for private sector and public sector and DoD and education.


Jason (00:40:11) – And so keep giving us money because we’re going to actually create these things to sell out in the world. Right. And so they basically came to my mentor had this relationship and they said, hey, you know what we would love for you to do? We have this piece of technology that we used in the shuttle program. We’d love to know, is there any market viability for this product for public sector, private sector, education, whatever? And so he said to my man, sir, hey, if you guys can put together a group of your MBA students and just have them do like a market analysis kind of thing, that’d be great. So I was one of the people that was picked to this group of five. It was me and, and two other business guys and then two engineers by trade, and we worked on this thing together. It was an inductive, non-contact position sensor, which essentially was used to measure the depths of cracks in the shuttle orbiter windows. So shuttle comes back from being in space and they run this thing over it that can detect cracks to 1,000th of a human hair.


Jason (00:40:56) – Right. Because if the cracks are shallow enough, it’s fine. It can go back into space again. If they’re not shallow enough, if they’re a little bit deep, then it could shatter when they’re in space and everybody dies. But they can’t just replace the windows every time they come back because these are like, you know, million dollar replacements or multimillion dollar replacements. So basically they come to us and said, you know, do this market testing. So we’re doing the thing. We’re finding different applications like, oh yeah, we could do yeah, atomic force microscopy. And there’s like some different, you know, applications we could use. And we’re sitting there one night and me and one of the business guys were sitting there and it said, like I just asked him, I said, why are we why are we doing like a PowerPoint for them? He’s like, what do you mean? I was like, why don’t we find somebody who actually wants to buy the technology? If it’s a commercialization department, their goal is to sell the technology.


Jason (00:41:40) – Why don’t we go sell the technology and, like, really do something big? And so my mentor was totally on board. He was always like, yeah, let’s go. So so we get together, we actually build a prototype with the help of the NASA guys, we build a very small prototype that’s like a $3 thing we build our own packaging for with the NASA logo, which we weren’t allowed to do. We found out later, uh, so we did this whole thing, and we found somebody who wanted to sign a letter of intent, this big sensor company, to to license this technology, to use this technology. We didn’t tell NASA. And then in our final presentation, we go up there, we’re doing our final presentation. And when I closed the presentation, I said, by the way, we have a memorandum of understanding, a letter. Irvin Ted from this company. Who wants to test this, this, this technology. And we are now forming a company and we would like exclusive license to these patents from the shuttle program, these three patents.


Jason (00:42:25) – And there’s like VCs in the room and there’s the NASA guys, the commercialization guys, the actual engineers, and they’re like, what the fuck? So obviously we have to take the conversation off line and we tell them when we go through all the things that we’re planning on doing, they say, okay, we’re we’re actually open to maybe giving you guys licensing to these patents. But before we do, because it’s a government agency, there’s a certain publication where they have to put out a thing saying, hey, we’re going to be giving these exclusive, uh, patents licensed to this company. If anybody else wants to step forward and wants access to these, you have two weeks to step forward. So we’re like, yeah, cool, post it. Like, who the hell is reading these journals? They’re going to write for it. Somebody comes forward. So a multibillion dollar sensor company comes forward and says, no, no, no. If you’re doing that. We want exclusive license today. So now you got five college kids versus the multi-billion dollar center company.


Jason (00:43:12) – We’re fucked. There’s no way that NASA is going to give us the license to this technology. So we’re all pretty disheartened. I remember we’re sitting there in this place. It was called the Basement. It was a out of my grad school, this underground bunker that all the people would go to do their work in grad school. And we’re sitting there one night. And again, it just kind of occurred to me. I said, guys, what if, you know, what if the things that we think are our disadvantage are actually our differentiator? And I’m like, what the fuck are you doing? I said, well, tell me, what are the reasons that they’re going to choose them over us? They said, well, I mean, first of all, they got, you know, they got $1 billion budget for sensor stuff. We got we got fucking we don’t have that. I said, yeah, you’re right. They do have this massive budget. And I said, and they have thousands of products that are going to be competing for that budget, right? We have one product for all of our time and attention goes to that one.


Jason (00:43:56) – And they go, okay, all right. But but they have a whole bench. The engineering team, they have their they have thousands of people that can help with engineering and innovation. They said, yeah, you’re right. And their change management process means it takes them three months to make a decision, a single change for the ecology. One product we’re leaving. We can make a change in three days if we needed to. So we started breaking those down one by one and then presented that to NASA. And NASA chose us over the multi-billion dollar company.


Sebastian (00:44:20) – Congrats man, that is epic. Well, I appreciate that.


Jason (00:44:23) – Rethink that. Yeah but but that’s but we can do that. Like everywhere in our life. Everywhere that’s at your disadvantage is your differentiator if you’re able to see that. And so that was the biggest lesson I learned from that. That I took away from that was every time I think, oh, now that person is bigger. They have a bigger following. They have more funding than ever.


Jason (00:44:38) – It’s like, cool. How is that my advantage? Not my dis.


Sebastian (00:44:41) – How does that make sense to someone when they think exactly that specific thing? Let me ask you that. If they think specifically that, because today I think that’s one of the biggest things for people nowadays that are trying to do big things and impact the world in this and that they actually look at people that may be potentially doing similar things, but they have a million followers or they have 500,000 thousand. And like, I have 1000 followers. Yeah. What’s the advantage of that? How do you turn that around?


Jason (00:45:05) – The advantage is you focus on intimacy over information, right? That people have million followers, they can’t give you intimacy. There’s no way maybe their team will respond to it and say it’s them. You can’t actually get connection. Right? So if you’re building something that actually matters, it’s not the number of people, it’s the depth with the people you have. So if I have 100 followers and you have a million followers, I can reach out to every one of those hundred followers and say, thank you so much for being a part of this journey.


Jason (00:45:30) – Yeah. How can I get you more involved? Who else do you know that? And those people are going to become zealots. They’re going to go out in the world and fight the fight for you. So if you focus on intimacy over information, you focus on intimacy over automation. I’m all for automation, I love it. Yeah, we’ve gone too far into it and we’re losing human touch. Right? So if you focus on intimacy, it doesn’t matter how big some of these audiences, you can still make a difference.


Sebastian (00:45:50) – That’s that’s a great piece of advice I love that, I love that. So, um, I’m going to go back to the 5% more joy and ask you. When you know whether it was in coaching or situations that are really maybe dark or very grim, are you still able to implement? I mean, obviously that’s when joy is needed the most, right? But when sometimes things are really dark or grim, somebody can react sort of like negatively to like joy or positivity or play.


Sebastian (00:46:20) – Do you have like a method there?


Jason (00:46:23) – Yeah, there’s a couple of things. So so the first thing is to redefine joy, right. Because joy, I think to a lot of people is this big exuberant expression of happiness. Mhm. But but there’s also these moments of like joy can be relief based joy. Right. Like again there’s maybe some big action that happens in front of you on the, on the road. And you were able to swerve away at the last. Yeah. Right. There’s there’s some relief based joy in there. Like I’m so happy that that didn’t go worse than it could. Yeah, right. There’s also the joy of awareness. Like, if you really get in this place of like, understanding, oh, man. Like, it doesn’t have to be this way. I actually have some control over this. There’s some there’s the joy of empowerment, like self-empowerment. Okay. There’s so kind of redefining joy. Sure thing. But but the second thing is, is that.


Jason (00:47:05) – The the resistance to the experience that we’re having is what causes us to not feel joy. Right? So the I think it was Alan Watts who said that the, the, the acceptance of a negative experience is a positive experience. And on the flip side, the rejection of a positive experience as a negative experience. So for example, if I went and said to you, I’m going to give you $100,000 right now, is that a positive experience or a negative experience.


Sebastian (00:47:28) – Like a positive experience? Oh yeah.


Jason (00:47:30) – But imagine you were just you hated money or it was something where like, oh no, there’s going to be strings attached.


Sebastian (00:47:35) – Well, I immediately thought of like, well, I don’t want I don’t want to feel like, no, I don’t, I don’t need it. I right, like I don’t want you to like. So I actually thought immediately I actually had a both a negative and a positive.


Jason (00:47:46) – So that’s that’s great though right. Yeah. Yeah. So in that moment that would have been a rejection of a positive experience which then becomes a negative experience.


Jason (00:47:51) – Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so this is all about not having resistance to your experience. And of course you can look at, you know, Eckhart Tolle or any people who say like be it be in the present moment. But the way I like to think about this, and this is one of my teachers who said this, and I really loved it, was think about the room that you’re in right now, even this room that we’re in right now, right. And there’s like really cool stuff on the shelves back there. I really love this, by the way. I know I keep talking about it. It’s really cool. Uh, like, there’s stuff on the shelf. There’s a table here. There’s a sign here.


Sebastian (00:48:15) – Yeah.


Jason (00:48:16) – Do you think the room that we’re in has any opinion about all the stuff that’s in it? No. Doesn’t give a shit. Whoever comes in and goes out the room is fine with it, right? Every furniture you bring in and bring out the room is fine with it.


Jason (00:48:27) – The the length of time you spend in the room or don’t. The room is fine with it. Yeah. And so if we can get ourselves into a place of just. I’m not going to negotiate with my experience. I’m not going to say, no, no, no, this shouldn’t be here or this should be here, or why is that thing he’s still here, or why hasn’t it left? Or why hasn’t it come yet? All these things are just me negotiating with my experience. Yeah. If I just stop negotiating with my experience, joy is there. So as opposed to joy being something you have to build, it would be like saying, I say a lot that there’s there’s only two types of days, right? There’s days when the sun is visible and there’s days where the sun is veiled. Right? Right. Now, that doesn’t mean there are days when it’s cloudy out. It doesn’t mean that the sun has disappeared. Right? The sun is obviously we know it. We know even when we can’t feel the sun’s warmth, there is no part of us as fairly intelligent adults that would say, oh, shit, the sun’s gone.


Jason (00:49:15) – I hope it comes back one day. Like, you know, it’s there. You just can’t see it in the mode, right? Right. And so and so that’s the thing. Joy is always there. Whatever form of joy it is, joy is always there. But sometimes it’s veiled. And so if you remember that, then it’s kind of like if you know where something is, like if you have a family heirloom that is in a safety deposit box that’s a thousand miles away from you, right? But you know where it is. Yeah. Even when you’re nowhere near it. You feel okay about that safety. You know, when it’s safe, it’s always going to be there. And the same thing happens.


Sebastian (00:49:42) – Love that man is is removing the condition so that joy is an unconditional thing. It’s not dependent and based on things. And um, you know, something that I’ve personally been working on incorporating into my life really is more joy and more play, specifically right around work. And, um, the thing there is that, um, you know, I can, like, throw in a joke here or there in a meeting and this and that, but that’s not that’s almost like forcing it.


Sebastian (00:50:09) – It’s not really doing it. And, um, I feel that no matter what you do, if you fucking love your job, it doesn’t matter how.


Jason (00:50:16) – Much you loved.


Sebastian (00:50:17) – Your job, there’s going to be mundane tasks in your job. So how do you feel that you can incorporate play into the mundane?


Jason (00:50:25) – I mean, it can be as easy as just making sure you’re listening to music you like while you do the thing, or you have a rewards based thing. Like, if I just sit down and do the stupid invoicing that I get to go have, like my favorite coffee at my favorite coffee. Yeah, right. It can, it can be little things like that. Right. So that that doing things with other people, collaborating. Right. Being in a co-working space and being around other people, and that kind of brings more joy, having little breaks and whether it’s like a dance break or it’s a for me, it’s like a watch comedy break, okay. Like when I would when I need to bring more play or joy in my life, in the mundane stuff.


Jason (00:50:52) – I may have, you know, a Dave Chappelle special playing while. Yeah, while I’m doing the QuickBooks stuff. Right. That’s great. And so so if you can just integrate those things, it’s not necessarily about I don’t need to make the mundane stuff more fun. Yeah, I just did bring more lightness to the experience of doing the mundane things.


Sebastian (00:51:07) – I love that, yeah, because otherwise it just feels forced. It feels like an eight and a half and you know what I mean? Yeah.


Jason (00:51:11) – And it’s and it’s just par for the course. Like there’s trade offs for everything. Yeah. And so if the trade off for me being able to do the things that I love is that 3% of the time I have to do things that don’t really feel that fun. I’m okay with that.


Sebastian (00:51:21) – Totally. Totally. Yeah, yeah. Jason, obviously I is like kind of like the that’s what everybody’s talking about. And there’s a lot of fear around I, a lot of people are losing jobs already.


Sebastian (00:51:29) – We know it’s actually going to take millions of jobs out. Uh, do you have, um, like a tip on a mindset towards AI outside of just, you know, learn how to use the tools like everyone’s kind of, you know, is there a mindset that you would, uh, suggest, you know, around AI and what people are fearing with it?


Sebastian (00:51:49) – I mean, yeah, I.


Jason (00:51:50) – Get I get the fear. Especially if people who have, uh, kind of more programmed response kind of jobs and even creative jobs, as we saw with, you know, Actors Guild and all that stuff and the writers strike and all those things which affected people that I coach that are that are in that industry. So. So I get it. Uh, for me, it, it it goes back to how can I most uniquely serve in the world, right. Because I don’t know that I is ever really going to get like what you do safety, right. Empathy, being heard, being seen.


Jason (00:52:17) – Like, where can you really make an impact with humans? I and maybe I will be able to do that in some way where it’s it’s it’s believable. I know that that can happen.


Sebastian (00:52:26) – Because they have the therapy and all that stuff already. Right? Right.


Jason (00:52:29) – But you can’t. But I’ve never and I’ve used AI stuff, which is really, really smart. I’ve never felt that I could relate to an AI when it was conversing with me. Right. And when I say please and thank you to ChatGPT, it doesn’t feel like I’m, you know, really talking to a live person. Yeah. And so I, you know, it’s one of those things where it’s like, stay in your lane, man. And and there was a guy that I met, uh, in passing in Raleigh, North Carolina, back in like 2014. He had just come back from skateboarding all the way from Florida to North Carolina. It’s like six, 700 miles on a skateboard. And I asked him because I’m a stupid coach.


Jason (00:52:58) – And of course, I had to make everything coaching. Uh, and I said, oh my God, that’s amazing. What was your biggest insight? What was like the biggest transformation you had as a part of this big journey? And he was not in personal growth? Uh, and he said, you know what, man? I there were no real big insights. There were no big transformations. I just had to focus on the ten feet of road in front of me. That’s an insight. But but cool. But but that really stuck with me. It’s like even in this massive journey of it. Oh my God, where is I going to go? What’s the what’s going to happen here? What jobs are going to be done? It’s like ten feet of road in front of you. How can you make the biggest difference with the ten feet of road in front of you? Doesn’t mean you don’t keep your eye on what’s going on. Correct? It’s not about putting your head in the sand, but where you can make the most impact is the ten feet of road.


Jason (00:53:36) – And it kind of goes.


Sebastian (00:53:37) – Back to the incremental stuff that we’re talking about. Exactly. Otherwise it’s just overwhelming. It’s like, oh shit, in ten years, AI is going to take over everything that I do. And it’s like.


Jason (00:53:45) – A lot. There’s also, you know, you know, what’s baked into that, though, at a much deeper kind of psychological level is the fear of uncertainty.


Sebastian (00:53:51) – Yeah, that’s that’s.


Jason (00:53:52) – All it really is.


Sebastian (00:53:53) – Well, I think too is, you know, we’re a generation that I mean, compared to people, you know, let’s say not even 100 years ago, but like, you know, 50 or 60, like back in the day, it was safe to, you know, learn one trade and know that you could do that for the rest of your life and do and be fine.


Jason (00:54:09) – And you’d be safe and you could provide for your.


Sebastian (00:54:11) – Family. There’s no longer the case.


Jason (00:54:13) – There’s no way.


Sebastian (00:54:14) – That people today do not.


Jason (00:54:16) – Have to change.


Sebastian (00:54:17) – Multiple times and adapt and be flexible. And it and it talks with the safety feeling right.


Jason (00:54:22) – Yeah it does fuck with that. And then there’s there’s actually a book that came out not too long ago I think it’s called range. And it’s all about this kind of shift away from specialization and math to generalization. Right. And being a being a generalist. Yeah. And it’s it’s so funny because the people that fight against that are the they will always it will always evoke the exact same quote. We’ve all heard the quote, Jack of all trades, master of none. Right. So you have.


Sebastian (00:54:44) – Always been negative. Always. Yeah.


Jason (00:54:46) – Here’s what nobody seems to know. That’s not the full quote.


Sebastian (00:54:50) – What’s the full quote?


Jason (00:54:50) – The full quote is a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.


Sebastian (00:54:57) – Really? No way. That’s the full quote. That’s amazing.


Sebastian (00:55:03) – But that’s what.


Jason (00:55:04) – We do in this society. We get. We get a sound clip and get a soundbite that feeds our agenda.


Jason (00:55:08) – And that’s the thing. And so when the agenda was specialisation, it makes sense to only share that first part of the quote. But that’s not the whole quote. So we got to be more curious. We got it. We got to dig into these beliefs.


Sebastian (00:55:20) – Shit that’s.


Jason (00:55:20) – Out there.


Sebastian (00:55:21) – Interesting. Yeah I love that. Thanks for sharing that. That is that is huge because I feel like I’m a bit of a jack of all trades, and I’ve always thought that 100%. And also being a jack of all trades also allows you to be able to communicate with more humans in different types of personalities. So from a leadership standpoint, it could be a you know, it’s definitely a positive thing. That’s a great point. Yeah. So yeah I love that. So you know we started with New Year’s resolutions and as as we were finishing things off, um, do you have a big vision that you want to share into the world, into the universe, either for this year or just this new season of your life?


Jason (00:55:54) – Yeah, man, I mean, this, you know, this new product that I’m putting out, like, I’m really, really excited about it.


Jason (00:55:59) – And it’s one of those things where I don’t want it to be another checkbox of like, you know, I’ve been doing services for a while, and I want to do a product now because I want something that, you know, is bigger than just me and doesn’t require me to be there all the time. And, you know, in the future of my family, I want to have more time with my family and all these other. So there’s a lot of like logistical logical to go into that. And I also know that there’s plenty of ways to make money. And if I really pick one that I’m not aligned with, I’m going to resent all the money that I make if I make it right. And so I really step back and ask myself this question, which is a great question. And it’s one of the questions now, I think they’re integrating more into school systems. It’s not what do you want to be when you grow up? But it’s like, what problem do you want to solve? That’s great when you grow up.


Jason (00:56:36) – Sure. It’s much more. Yeah. And so when I was looking at my own life, you know, and the fact that I’ve suffered with, you know, this acid reflux stuff which we’ve talked about. Yeah, for the last 12 years, I’m like, I asked myself kind of a different question than what problem do I want to solve? It was, what problem would I feel proud that I solved that right? Yeah, that kind of really stuck because there’s plenty of things that I’m like, oh yeah, I could solve that problem and it would be helpful, or I could try to solve that problem. Yeah, it would be helpful, but would I be like, super proud that I helped to solve that problem? This one feels like that to me. And I’ve never had that experience with thinking about a product until now. And it feels like it’s like it’s not sexy fucking heartburn. But I know, I know what I’ve gone through. I know what I’ve experienced. And every, every single time I tell somebody that I’m building this product, they go, oh yeah, I’ve suffered with that for years, or my cousin or my my girlfriend.


Jason (00:57:19) – Everybody does. It’s it’s a big thing. It is. So for me, my, my vision that I’m really stepping into this year is, is becoming as passionate about solving that problem and articulating that out in the world. Not I already have it for myself, but articulating that in the world as much or more as I have the last ten years of being in personal growth and talking about joy and self leadership and all that kind of stuff. So. So that’s my thing, man. I really want to transfer. It feels so cool to see this as a culmination of everything I’ve done, because I’ve obviously done the coaching and the marketing and the business and the community building and all that, and all those things are going to serve this thing that I do now. So it just feels like such a cool merging of all the things that I’ve worked on for the last decade.


Sebastian (00:57:58) – And I have no doubt that you’re going to do amazing with it. But yeah, I mean, think about just the name of that heartburn, something that’s burning your heart, like literally the most important organ in your body.


Sebastian (00:58:07) – And, uh, yeah. And you’re going to save that?


Jason (00:58:10) – I hope so, and we’re going to do it with fun, right? We’re going to bring joy into it. Right? There’s nobody doing it fun. So like the name of the product is Kiss My Acid goodbye. Right. So it’s not like it’s not this crazy. I want it to be irreverent. I want people to have fun. I want I’m going to build playlists of songs that have to do with things that burn. Right? Like, I was.


Sebastian (00:58:28) – Going to say, people don’t know that you’re listening to this podcast, that you’re an epic fucking rapper. Like, do you have do y’all rap? You want to share already about acid for about passion or about leadership?


Jason (00:58:40) – That’s going to be okay. I am going to write one for you. Okay. We’ll come back on. We’ll come back.


Sebastian (00:58:44) – Okay. Absolutely. When you’re ready to launch the product, for sure. Absolutely.


Jason (00:58:48) – Kiss my Acid Goodbye freestyle session.


Sebastian (00:58:49) – I love that.


Sebastian (00:58:50) – That’s epic. That’s epic. So, Jason, I.


Sebastian (00:58:52) – Always end my podcast by asking people what are the top two traits that are conscious leader must embody today? But since you like to say that leadership is dead.


Sebastian (00:59:03) – And that.


Sebastian (00:59:04) – Um, self leadership is the future, what do you find that are the top two traits that a conscious and futuristic self leader must embody today?


Jason (00:59:15) – Yeah, I have this ready because I actually believe there are two like literally two love. It’s like, yeah, so thank God you didn’t say three. I would have been so. So the two traits I really, really think and regardless of conscious leadership or not, but especially in conscious leadership, are integrity and courage. Okay, to me and this is not this is not an intellectual thing. I literally and this just happened last month. I was doing an intensive doing the Entrepreneurs Edge with a guy who’s in Europe and owns an interior design company. And so we did this full day long intensive and we come in and the beginning, he starts telling me, like I said, hey, tell me all the things you would love to accomplish during our time here today.


Jason (00:59:48) – And he starts listing this stuff out and I’m writing them all down, you know, sharing my screen. And so you see. Yeah. And we like 25 things in that list. We noticed within a half an hour that integrity would solve 20 of those 25 things. Wow. He was out of integrity with his word to himself or to somebody else. And all these presenting problems could all be fixed by having him having integrity. But sometimes it’s hard to have integrity. It’s scary to make to give your word to somebody and follow through. It’s scary to give your word to yourself and follow through. And that’s where the courage comes in, right? So if you can really master courage to say, even though this is scary, I’m going to do it because I know what it’s best for me and for whoever else I’m serving or leading or whatever else. And then you can step into a place of integrity. And integrity is also not an ethical character thing, where if you’re out of integrity, you’re a bad person.


Jason (01:00:31) – If you’re in integrity, you’re a good person. It’s just a marker for you being somebody who your word can be counted on. And so if you can really get into a place of like, am I in integrity to myself and others with whatever I’m doing in this moment, if you say no, it doesn’t mean you’re a piece of shit. It means you say, okay, cool, how could I shift battery integrity 5%? So integrity encouraged, man.


Sebastian (01:00:49) – That’s that man, I love that. Love that. You are just an awesome human. And in truly a conscious leader brother. So keep doing what you do, man. Just keep being you. So thanks for being on man. It’s been a pleasure. Love. You know what you’re doing. I love you, Jason. Thanks for.