From Racist, Bipolar, Homeless, & Suicidal to Purpose-Driven Success w/ Torri Shack

Show Notes in order of appearance: 

• Torri shares a funny “Oh shit” moment with her girlfriend. 
• Growing up in a raging racist and homophobe household. 
• Being a lesbian and a homophobe at the same time. 
• The stigma around mental health conditions at home. 
• Torri talks about depression, suicidal thoughts and dealing drugs in Orange County, California. 
• Why drugs help you feel good when you’re depressed. 
• Torri tells us how she got her ass kicked in grade school for saying something racist to a black girl. 
• How Torri became an anti-racist. 
• Sebastian shares his past about racist jokes. 
• Torri talks about her father dropping racism. 
• Torri’s journey and process in changing her racist viewpoints. 
• Being Bipolar Type 2 and feeling the manic side of bipolar.
• Torri gets stopped at airport security over something unexpected. 
• The stigma around being or having a mental condition. 
• Creating something with purpose and personal passion. 
• Suicide discussion
• Funding a non-profit with for-profit
• Twella App- mindfulness and compulsive spending 
• Changing behavior through cognitive behavioral therapy
• Voting with our dollars 
• Conscious leaders need to focus on…

Connect with Torri Shack and Tangible Movement 

Connect with Sebastian:

https://www.instagram.com/sebnaum/

www.SebastianNaum.com

Below is a transcript of the video podcast created by Seb’s Robot buddy, Zekton. He tends to make mistakes so please forgive him if you find errors or some funky sounding sentences. For the real deal, watch the video or click on your favorite audio Podcast platform above! Enjoy!

Sebastian Naum (00:09):
Yo, what’s up guys. This story of Tory shack is gnarly, man. I am not even kidding. A lesbian who was raced a racist against her own kind. She struggled with depression and addiction since she was 14 years old. She’s a two time attempted suicide survivor. So the story was a teenager. She spent years battling alcoholism, addiction, depression, suicidal ideation, eating disorders, and sexual gender identity issues. At one point she lost everything and was homeless living out of her car as a result of our severe untreated mental health condition and addiction. I know I’ve got your attention by now and I’m really excited to share with you how she turned her life around and let her to form a mental health. Non-profit called tangible movement as well as launching a for-profit tech startup that serves as a mindful approach to stop compulsive spending. I promise you’ll not only be intrigued and inspired by the story, but you’ll probably get a couple of bonus lasts in there as well. Enjoy the show.

Sebastian Naum + Torri Shack (01:10):
Welcome to the show. Very happy to be here next you’re having me. I love having you, you know, I’m super excited to have you, uh, because you know, I’ve known you personally for quite some time now, and you’re definitely one of the most raw and authentic people that I’ve ever met. So I know that what I’m getting from you is, is it, and so that’s what we’re going to get today. It’s it’s the real deal. Uh, yeah, and it’s a double-edged sword. It’s got me in a whole lot of trouble and it’s also taken me to different levels of success. So yeah, I’m sure. Right. I’m sure. Um, I like to start the show by asking my guests, when was the last Oh, moment. And this could be something as little as like the last time you tripped over that and really annoying plugging in the third floor in Santa Monica, that the office that we share, or it could be something as important as the life event or anything that comes to mind your last Oh, moment. Um, I was actually doing another podcast and I mentioned that I was excited that my girlfriend was not quarantining with me. Um, but I didn’t realize that she was going to be listening to the podcast. So I was like, Oh,

Torri Shack (02:25):
You don’t want a court to me anyway. I’m like, no, no.

Torri Shack (02:30):
Why are you listening to the podcast anyway,

Sebastian Naum + Torri Shack (02:33):
Because I wanted to hear what you had to say. I’m like, don’t, don’t listen to my anymore. You won’t get your feelings hurt anymore. Don’t listen to me. What was your last, ah, hell yeah. Moment. I’m working on a tech product actually. We’re at stages of finalizing the MVP and uh, we’re like, hell yeah. As far as hopefully going to be closing it out next week and start fundraising.

Sebastian Naum (03:02):
That’s awesome. Congrats on that. And uh, we’ll get into that stuff in a little bit. And we’re going to be talking about your, um, you know, mental health focused nonprofit and also the for-profit, you know, purpose driven, uh, tech app that you’re building, which is 12. But before that, you know, you are a lesbian, you’re bipolar two, you’ve been addicted to prescription pills. You’ve been homeless, all of those things. And I, you know, I want to hear a little bit more about your story. I want people to learn your story. So tell us where all of this starts and like where do these issues that led to all of these things in life start?

Torri Shack (03:45):
Uh, it started with the household that I was raised in. I was raised in orange County, California, and, um, it was a very white, very white, you know, area where we were living. And I actually grew up in a super raging racist household. My dad, my dad was a racist, like thinking that way. And, um, as a racist and a homophobe, he was a major homophobe. Um, and so was, I, I, I did not think gay people had deserves the same rights as straight people because that’s what I was taught, um, at that age. And then at age around 14, I started having these really weird feelings for my friends or a couple of girls. And I was like, Hey, this is really weird. What is going on? And so I had to face the fact that certain then I started going to therapy. They said that I was more likely gay and, um, also suffering from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Torri Shack (04:43):
And they’ve diagnosed me, I believe with severe depressive episodes or just severe depression at that time. I’m not sure. I don’t think it was bipolar. Um, and so, you know, obviously my father was, uh, did not think that anybody has households should have any form of mental illness. His father is actually a psychiatrist that leads psychiatrist at a Penn state mental hospital, like my grandpa. So my dad thought he knew everything there was to know about psychiatry. So I come home and he’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You’re not taking those medications that you’re not that I’m, I don’t have any crazy people in my family. And so my mom demanded that we go to therapy, like just regular therapy and he’s like, fine. You can take her to therapy, but do not use your insurance and pay cash only. I don’t want any paper trail family.

Torri Shack (05:37):
Yeah. So the stigma was really real for me. And obviously it wasn’t accepted within my family. As far as my sexual orientation was concerned or my mental state, my mental, my mental illness. Wasn’t also, it was not accepted or acknowledged too, to the extent that it should have been. And, um, at age 15, I, I was my first suicide attempt. Uh, I just felt, I grew up with, uh, ingrained in my head that I’m going to be a lawyer or a doctor. And I’m going to have a white picket fence with, uh, married to a man with two children and two dogs. And once I realized I was gay as doing all these emotions and suppression, I was like, okay, well that image that has been presented to me for the last 14 years of my life is doesn’t exist now. Like, what am I supposed to do with life? I was so severely depressed that the pain was, um, to me, the only solution was just to leave the planet.

Sebastian Naum (06:42):
Wow. And you were just 15 and it was crazy. So it all had to do with this image that you thought you had to live, you had created in your head and had been co-created by people raising you. Um, that basically you, you, you had, at least you had come to terms that, that wasn’t going to happen because you were gay. Right. And realize like, Hey, this isn’t going to go this way. So it’s not worth it. Oh, what, so that was your first suicide attempt. And where did that go? What, what happened after?

Torri Shack (07:12):
Um, well, I was using drugs at the time. I started using drugs around the age of 14 and I started dealing drugs at that time, like really soon thereafter. So that was my first entrepreneurial career was a drug dealer. And, uh, uh, no orange or according to Casa Rancho, Rancho, Santa margarita, high demand. Yeah, we was because it was definitely a high demand for sure. Cause I went to Catholic high school. Um, I got into a lot of trouble in junior high. I was hanging out with gang bangers. Not that I was a gang banger and I was tat I got caught tagging lockers. So my dad thought that the nuns would be, uh, I’m Jewish. Um, but he thought the nuns at the Catholic high school would be better equipped to deal with me. So I went to Catholic high school and I made quite a bit of money selling drugs to the Catholic, rich Catholic high school kids, you know? Um, so high school, I, you couldn’t pay me to go back to high school. Like they help when you’re depressed.

Sebastian Naum (08:19):
You know, you’re living that you’re living that hell inside your head. Why do drugs help

Torri Shack (08:24):
It completely numbs it out? Like you, it takes your feelings away. You don’t feel like either the anxiety or the depression, or you’re not thinking about how horrible a person you are because you’re gay or whatnot. It just it’s, self-medicating basically. And so instead of taking antidepressants to make myself feel better, I smoked at that time was weed. That was my first introduction. Um, we did a lot of alcohol and, um, and sleeping pills. So it just it’s all as it is a self-medicating period.

Sebastian Naum (09:01):
So, you know, you, you had come to the realization that you were gay, this had a lot to do with your depression, but coming to terms with it didn’t necessarily solve anything. You still had these, uh, these racist feelings inside of you, this homophobia. So what w what was it, what’s an example of how you were raised as being a racist? Like, so you’re, I mean, it was just your dad telling you like, Hey, this is not cool. These people don’t, you know, they’re not worth it. You know, what was that?

Torri Shack (09:31):
The only, only terms that we refer to, like, I can’t say them out loud obviously, cause they’re so racist, but, um, just think of every, every negative connotation of any nationality. Um, and we would use a derogatory term to reference them. Right. Um, and that was normal. Like we didn’t call Mexicans, Mexicans. He called them something else. We didn’t call African-Americans or blacks, blacks. We called them something else. Um, you know, and it was just, that was how I was taught to talk about these people. And we went in and out would go to school and make jokes about it. And then, you know, gay people were, um, well, my dad specifically didn’t like men gay, gay men. He obviously didn’t like gay females. And the only word he used to describe them was what the F word. And, um, so I grew up with a lot of internalized homophobia for years and, and racism.

Torri Shack (10:32):
Um, and I got my beat really hard. The first time was when, as in junior high school by Lakeesha Lakeisha kicked my and my mom was standing. It was F I said something that deserved my DB to her. Okay. And so we got off the bus and all the, I didn’t even have two seconds to think she hung about by my hair on the ground, just punching me in the head. And I look over, I see my mom standing there and I’m like, mom, mom, and the Kesha just beaten the out of me and all, all the kids are watching this whole thing out of the bus, watching this happen. And, um, I run over my mother. Why didn’t you help me? Why didn’t you come home? And she’s like, you probably said something that deserved it because my mom was not a racist. She hated the racism,

Sebastian Naum (11:20):
The economy going

Torri Shack (11:21):
On. Yeah. And, um, Lakeisha and I ended up becoming friends, actually I got my beat. Yeah. And she was kind of my first introduction to the, there was really no black people where I grew up my first introduction to black culture or African-American culture. And it was, it took me up into, through college and even, um, maybe a little bit after college for me to completely, um, have educated myself about different races and realize that my dad’s thought regarding the race and the derogatory remark, you know, terms that he referred to them as they just weren’t true. Um, it just wasn’t there stereotypes. Yes. We have stereotypes too. Like I’m white. Okay. There’s white trash, you know? Um, but you don’t go around saying that to people like or yelling, Hey, I think you’re a white trash redneck, whatever, blah, blah, blah. You know, so, um, I just learned, I learned I’m a history major. I decided to major in history. So of course I learned a lot about slavery and African-American culture and all the different cultures that were at the immigrated to United States. And I ended up majoring in a specific part of history, which was, uh, with an emphasis in the modern middle East. So, um, I, I, I was cultured and educated in, out of my racism in college per se and that’s, and my dad and I, my dad and I would have battles like deep battles about it. Yeah.

Sebastian Naum (12:50):
So, you know, it’s just to share something myself here. I moved from Argentina at a young age, nine to 10, um, in Argentina, I didn’t really experience that very many cultures at all. I mean, most people were, you know, white descendants of Europeans. Uh, not that very many, uh, you know, natives around me. And so, and there weren’t really very many, there weren’t people of color there weren’t very many black people at all. So I actually didn’t see a black person until I visited, uh, New York, uh, without parents, which is wild for somebody from here to think. Right. Yeah. So that was at a really young age. And then, um, we moved to orange County, right. So we grew up in, in, in the same area. Um, and I obviously started, I came in and the differences I came with, like, you know, my parents being very open and very, you know, loving towards everybody.

Sebastian Naum (13:42):
So I didn’t have that in me at all. And right. So, but growing up in Irvine, I had, my whole group of friends was very multicultural, right? So there’s people from everywhere. There’s people from the middle East, from India, uh, Asian, South American, a little bit of everything, not that very many black, but a little bit of everything. And just, you know, something that I resonate with in a sense is that, you know, you, don’t things that we did back then and, and, you know, or sad in the nineties or early thousands of whatever, um, that we weren’t really aware of what we were doing by saying them too is like, as you said, you said, you would say something derogatory something before. And for me it’s, this is how it went into in my mind. Okay. First of all, I’m not a racist. I don’t engage or condone any racist actions. I, myself am a minority and all of my friends are minorities. So we can joke with each other and say these things that are derogatory towards each other, because in fact, they are meant as

Sebastian Naum (14:42):
That jokes. Right. And

Sebastian Naum (14:44):
So in, in my head and in our heads, we were doing absolutely nothing wrong. And obviously now, now, even now, now with everything happening, we, you know, we’re becoming more and more educated and how those words can turn into it right. Can hurt. Right. And how that’s different, you know, I’ll read you a quote from Maya Angelou. She said, do the best you can until, you know, better than when you know, better do better. It’s true. It’s true. Right. So sometimes if, if you know that some of those actions or things that you were doing before, if you just simply didn’t know better, I mean, if you knew like, Hey, you’re doing something wrong or just that, and you’re doing it anyway, that’s different. But if some things that you just didn’t know and, you know, and you just, you have to essentially also forgive yourself, you know, and then know better now do better.

Torri Shack (15:35):
Yeah. And my FA my father has gotten a lot better with the racing, which is, he’s a boomer. So I’m, and it’s because most of my client base, as far as my personal training is concerned, are black. And, um, when that, when I first started doing personal training, I started attracting, um, mostly artists within the RMB, uh, music industry. They’re all black. And you, my dad was like, just flipping out about it. And, um, finally, like after a number of years of, of having black clients and, and this and that, he one of the client and, um, the artists that I’m gonna mention knows this because I’ve told them his story. Um, and he knows it all, all my friends know that I was, I’m a former racist. Like I speak about it openly. Um, whenever I teach, go to schools, you know, before all of this even happens, like, that’s what, that’s who I was. I had to learn out of it. Like, and so my dad said to me, he’s like, do you think you can get me a Miguel? T-shirt, I’m like, what, what is like, yeah, I think he’s a really cool guy. Like, I, I like his music. I think he’s really cool. He’s treated you really well. And, um, yeah. And that’s when it pivoted and he got his Miguel shirt and he wore that thing until a holes came through it. So that’s great. Yeah.

Sebastian Naum (16:56):
I love that because it’s not just the change, you know, maybe somebody in our age or generation years, we’re seeing it more and more. It’s more common. No, excuse in a way, but it’s tougher for a boomer, like you said, so it’s great to see that good for you to be able to see that, too. Right. So, yeah. So I was going to ask you, what was, you know, what was this catalyst for change? And you started talking about it. You said after I feel like the fight you’re getting beat up was that catalyst for change in a way, it was like a weight, a little bit of a wake-up call, which then led you into your studies and to becoming more open-minded. Would that, would you say that that’s the case?

Torri Shack (17:29):
Well, what happened was when I went to college, I was introduced, there was only one white, it was only one black kid in my high school. And so when I went to college went, GCSB still not really all that cool.

Sebastian Naum (17:39):
By the way, we both went to UCS, just anyone listening out there, very, and I literally had the same life and we happened to meet like, you know, in our mid to late thirties and, and,

Torri Shack (17:50):
And history classes, I there’s, um, you know, a very diverse mix of students. And I had my viewpoints and I was not afraid, just like, I’m not afraid to express who I am today. I would get into arguments, um, with people in class. Um, like I remember this one time, this one black kid stood up and it was American. It was American history. Like the only way black people could make money today is either basketball or drugs or selling drugs. And I was like, I remember raising my and saying, you know what, you’re just living right into your own stereotype. And then there was this big battle with me and him back and forth, and the teacher had to break it up and I, and then we ended up talking afterwards and I’m like, I need you to explain this to me. I’m like, because that’s exactly what I think, like, you know, that, that you guys make your own lifestyle and you choose that lifestyle.

Torri Shack (18:44):
You choose to just sell drugs or, or do basketball or whatever. And that’s your only way out. And it was by having these conversations and arguments and me being an outward racist, literally that started me and listening. I was listening to them and it educated me about, you know, obviously take a history of my major in history, learning about the plight of African-Americans coming in and where they are today. It really helped me to, um, change my viewpoints, but it took a lot. It took a lot. It wasn’t just like one day I just snapped out of it. You know, it took a lot, it’s a process, it’s a total process and it’s, it’s mostly through education and you have to want to change. Yeah. Like I was, I realized at that point that my racism wasn’t serving me at all, it was, it was isolating me from, you know, potential, you know, really good people out there. So I was like, you know, I, I’m just gonna, I just started getting more educated, more educated, and then realizing, wow, these viewpoints are just ridiculous. Like how I grew up thinking was just absolutely absurd. And that’s how, that’s how I got out of it.

Sebastian Naum (19:53):
It’s amazing. It’s, it’s so important to figure out when you figure out that something isn’t serving you anymore, I feel like that’s such a click in your head. It’s like, why am I doing this? Why am I, why do I continue to think this way? Why do I continue to act this way? If it’s not really serving me? And it’s just like a weird thing that we do as humans, you know, just because we’ve been taught to do it and just kinda the cycles, um, it took 14 years to figure out that you were actually, uh, bipolar two. And then that was that wasn’t.

Torri Shack (20:23):
Well, no, no, it didn’t. It took me actually. Um, I was, I kept being diagnosed bipolar and throughout, throughout my life. And, um, I kept telling the doctors, cause my dad said I’m not bipolar. So, and, and the way the bipolar was, I saw bipolar, you know, in the streets and Sylvia view people thinking that they’re Jesus Christ or they’re on a psychotic, you know, they’re having third out of, completely out of touch with reality. And they’re going through psychosis. That is how I saw and what I understood to be bipolar. Hey guys,

Sebastian Naum (20:56):
To remind you, if you want to find more content like this, you can visit Sebastian nom.com. That’s Sebastian N a U m.com. You can also get a ton of other marketing resources for myself and my agencies ranging from SEO to social media, influencer, marketing, branding, web development, and more again, that’s Sebastian nom.com. Thank you. And enjoy the rest.

Torri Shack (21:16):
And I never went through psychosis. So I was like, no, I’m not my polar. I stopped telling me I’m bipolar. I’m not. And it wasn’t until six years ago that I met a psychiatrist that finally, I was like, I’m just going to give her the basics of what, what I know, because I don’t want to hear, I don’t want to hear about me being bipolar anymore. And, um, I gave her the basic she’s like, yeah, you’re bipolar. I just like rolled my eyes and sat back. And she’s like, type two. I was like, what different types? Yeah. I’m like, what are you talking about? He explained that there are four different types of bipolar. I had no idea, no other psychiatrist. And I’ve seen a lot, has ever educated me about the different types of mental illnesses and the different types of bipolar. And so bipolar type two is, um, where you have severe depressive episodes.

Torri Shack (22:07):
That’s majority of it with hypomanic episodes. But most of the time you don’t go into psychosis and the hypomanic episodes last, like it could be seconds. It could be a day, it could be an hour. Um, and the way, the way my hypomania manifests is in three ways, um, anger and rage is number one. Like I will just completely go blind it, anger and rage. Like I, I have to be really careful when I’m driving because of the road rage. Um, and then the other one is starting starting businesses. So I actually, yes, I had, I had a mortgage company, which I started like literally within a day because no one could see people told me I couldn’t do it. So I did. So I, I had a really successful mortgage company in my twenties. And then the nonprofit after I, after I accepted and surrender to the fact that as I pour type two, I was like, Oh my God, there’s other people out there who are definitely misdiagnosed and don’t understand.

Torri Shack (23:04):
I want to help, help them understand. I went home in a hypomania hypomanic episode and create a tangible movement within 24 hours. Like the incorporation paper that I did, the website, I did every single thing like, and it was, and then I didn’t look at it for two weeks cause I slipped into a severe depressive episode. So it took me, uh, 15 years actually to receive a proper diagnosis. And on average, um, it’s the statistics are that on average, it takes 10 years from the onset of symptoms to receiving a diagnosis of mental illness because people either don’t accept it. They don’t seek treatment. Um, they, they there’s, there’s a lack of access. There’s so many different components that go into it. So it took me 14 years. Yeah.

Sebastian Naum (23:53):
And that’s crazy because so much can happen in that time. So unfortunate. Right?

Torri Shack (23:58):
Oh, a lot of, and a lot happened during this that could have been prevented.

Sebastian Naum (24:04):
Yeah. You said something important. I think it was the acceptance is huge. Cause maybe, maybe you could have gone on the right drugs earlier, but maybe the accepted, the acceptance is a big part of it. It’s the acceptance plus getting on the right drugs and all of the combination of everything. Right? The led you to be living a better life, that the type of life you’re living today.

Torri Shack (24:22):
Yeah. And I’m not an advocate for, or against medication. Like there’s plenty of people out there who choose not to be able to get far. That’s totally fine for me. I, I definitely need to be medicated. Um, I’ve tried all the other alternatives, but yes, for me, you’re absolutely right. The number one important, the number one thing first is acceptance, acceptance and desire for help. Yeah.

Sebastian Naum (24:48):
So instead of taking a, like a commercial break, I’m going to take a little humor breaks since, you know, we do happen to know each other. I know a lot of stories about you, Tori. So I want you to tell us a little story about when you were going to the mat leaves islands with your then girlfriend, who’s now your wife and you had a little stop at security. What happened in security?

Torri Shack (25:09):
Okay. So being a lesbian, we have a toolkit. Oh. Some toolkits, you know, and um, because you know, some lesbians have Dick ND I have Dick envy. I’m just going to be straight up. You know, like I wish I had something attached to me. I could put into a hole, like, just be like, yeah, this is cool. So, um, and uh, my she’s gonna kill me. Okay. She’s never really experienced, um, strap ons before. Like she’s just had like traditional lesbian sex. And so I forgot. I didn’t even think for a second. I’m going to a Muslim country and the Muslim. I didn’t, I didn’t put the two together. I stayed in Dubai, but I did not leave the hotel. Like I didn’t, I didn’t leave the airport. I stayed in the hotel in the airport just cause I know my mouth like, and the way I look like I could get into a lot of trouble.

Torri Shack (26:05):
And I know it’s really, I know it’s very liberal, but still it wasn’t going to take the chance. So I didn’t realize the melodies was a Muslim. So I’m coming through security last point of security. And I see all these guys, like, [inaudible] talking about my bag and then the woman pulls me aside and she’s like, do you have in your bag? Like just straight forward. She had a brick on like, she was like full flat, like it was, I was like, yeah, yes. Um, she was like, yes, uh, we’re not the compensate them. Uh, this is, you know, the Muslim. I’m like, Oh my I’m so sorry. I am so sorry. I meant no disrespect whatsoever. This was not meant to be disrespectful. She’s like, it’s okay. It happens a lot. And I’m like, okay. So they took my little bag of my, my little toolkit and um, they put it like in a storage area and gave me a ticket. So when I came back through, yeah, I got it back.

Sebastian Naum (27:05):
That’s great security, airport security. I love it.

Torri Shack (27:08):
And then the people next to me who, who saw me, saw me getting taken me were laughing, but then they stopped laughing cause they had bottles of alcohol in their suitcase and they were compensated as well. And so we’re all standing there like, okay. Yeah.

Sebastian Naum (27:28):
All right. So, um, you started talking about tangible movement and how that got started and that you started all in a day and then you left it for a couple of weeks and this was some time passed down on the right meds, but so tangible movement. And you mentioned something earlier that now I kind of all connects what you talk a lot about the stigma and the hashtag for tangible movement, which is a mental health organization that you created is hashtag end the stigma. And I, it clicked even more for me now, even afternoon, you, for a couple of years, it has a lot to do with your past and what you live with. And it was the stigma of, uh, about having a mental health condition that made it even worse than it already was. Cause it adds extra pressure, right? The stigma of being gay, the stigma of having a mental health condition as if it’s not already hard enough. So the stigma adds that. Right. So I talked about a tangible moving.

Torri Shack (28:20):
So yeah, so initially what I, what I wanted to do a tangible event and this was my initial thought, I knew I wanted to give back, you reach a certain age and it’s like, okay, you realize that money is just not enough. I’ve made a lot of money in my life and I’ve lost a lot of money in my life. And I realized after I gotten sober, cause I went my second, which I forgot to mention. I had a second suicide attempt, um, about 10 years ago. And that was the last time. Um, I was institutionalized and um, I’ve been sober ever since then and abstinent from my eating disorder, which I also had. Um, but I decided at that moment that I wanted to put forth some, a company that was going to be a do good company that like you could, you can go to the beach and pick up trash in your neighborhood.

Torri Shack (29:07):
You can go to a local, a local home and uh, you know, old person home, uh, hospice and teach them how to use the iPhone so they can FaceTime with their, with their daughter or whatever. Right. And then I came up with the whole name and the brand and everything like that. And I realized after the next day there’s a company that exists that does exactly that. And it’s called it’s called do something. Yeah. So I was like, okay. And then I thought, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, you know what? I’m like, no, I’m like, I’m gonna have you do something that’s really personal to me that I struggled with. Why not more open about my struggles and be vulnerable cause I’m not very vulnerable. Um, and as far as I ha I wasn’t up until that, you know, opening up through little bit. So I was like, you know what? The stigma is really real. There’s probably a lot of other people out there who are going through the same thing who are not jubilant, do not want to get labeled with a mental health condition and, or they can’t get this treatment and, or their significant others. Like, no, I’m not dating a quote unquote crazy person either.

Torri Shack (30:11):
Oh yeah. I dated lots and lots as you know. And um, I can tell, I know there’s, this is, there’s a few things that happen either. They are mentally ill, but had not had any treatment. And they say, Oh, I really identify with you. And I’m like, okay. So I ended up usually taking them to an AA meeting. Okay. Uh, or something like that. And then there’s the other type, uh, that we will be talking and talking and then they’ll, they’ll go to my Instagram and see I’m open about mental health and then crickets, you know? Yeah. There’s like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, um, I’ve been, definitely asked out of a lot of, uh, opportunities for, um, adult activities, uh, due to the stigma and the being an open mental health advocate.

Torri Shack (31:08):
Oh man. So, but it all worked out in the end because, um, Michelle, when I met her like seriously on a second date, because I felt like it was going to go someplace and she, it was just weird. It just clicked. It was the weirdest thing I just sent her. I said, look, I want you to know something I’m mentally ill and I take medication for it and I’m stable. And she’s like, okay. And I’m like, and I said, and you don’t have a problem with that. And she’s like, no, you you’re taking care of it. It sounds like you take care of yourself. Like, yeah. And I was like blown away. I was like, wow. So yeah, that’s amazing. So that’s the goal of tangible movement to help end the stigma. Yup. And change perception. Like our tagline is changing perception, changing lives. So we want to change the perception of what mental illness is.

Torri Shack (31:56):
You know, people think that’s illnesses when they think mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar it’s anxiety, anxiety is actually the number one mental health disorder. So, um, yeah, changing the stigma it’s like and changing the stigma around suicide rather than saying someone committed suicide. You know, I want to change the language to somebody died by suicide. It’s like suicide is a symptom and it’s a symptom of depression that has gone on a treated for too. Mm I’ve never heard it said that. Yeah. And that’s how it is. And um, just like somebody who has cancer, will you repeat that? Yeah. Suicide and dying by suicide is a symptom it’s ending. It’s part of a symptom because of untreated mental health condition or untreated depression. Um, that’s just the same thing as if you have cancer and the doctor says you need chemotherapy in order to survive or whatever you need.

Torri Shack (33:01):
And that you say no, okay. They don’t commit cancer death. Right. They die. They die as a result of having cancer. And same thing with suicide, no one wants, no one is like, they’re not committing to killing themselves. They die by suicide. It is a direct by-product of untreated mental health condition. That reached a point that just, yes, it was just like, and when you’re in it, like I’ve been in it twice. Right. You’re not thinking about anybody else. You’re thinking about how do I end this pain? I’m so tired of being in this pain. How do I get out of it? Like, how do I get out of it? And your head, your brain just is going to kill yourself, kill you, you know, just all these different suicidality type of thoughts processes go through. And that just seems that just is the you’re you get to this narrow vision point where that’s the only option. That’s only option that you see.

Sebastian Naum (33:57):
Wow. So tangible movement, your nonprofit, um, nonprofits are difficult. They’re hard to, you know, uh, how do I say grow, help, expand the word. Um, they take a ridiculous amount of time because it has to be treated essentially as a business in terms of how to run it and how to operate it. Right. So, man, I mean, you, you were kind of similar in a lot of ways, actually we have like, we’re, we are both addicted to like multiple businesses and then just kind of do a million things. Right. Overwhelming ourselves with a million things. But at the same time we love it because we’re passionate about all of them. Right? Like I’m doing anything I hate. No. Yeah. So

Torri Shack (34:44):
I’m sitting around just like my mind just goes,

Sebastian Naum (34:48):
Oh yeah, exactly. Right. So, you know, running a nonprofit, I know it’s really difficult. So why? Because it needs funding and it needs money. And so funding, a nonprofit comes from donations and I’ve had this conversation with many people and a lot of people have found a way to further fund their nonprofits by creating some sort of a side project by building some sort of for-profit model into it in order to fund the nonprofit and having multiple conversations with you about this in the past too, it sounded like it hit you too, is like, Hmm. I think I needed to go a different route in order to help fund this so that I can continue the mission that I’m really here for. So what’s that next step for you, Tori, as you aim to further fund tangible movement. So, um,

Torri Shack (35:38):
I came up with a product or an idea for an app and I wanted it to be inside of tangible movement. And I started talking to different VCs, uh, about this app and about funding and all the feedback I was getting was you need, you’re going need to take that out of the nonprofit and create a for-profit company and then funnel the funnel, the money back into the nonprofit, as far as you know, uh, donations are concerned, you know, or TAC tribes are concerned. I’m like, okay. And so, uh, I created a separate entity and um, and so that’s one, one Avenue like grants, getting grants is very, very difficult. It’s very political. Um, so we don’t do grants, all of tangible move people like all our staff and board of directors are unpaid, nobody’s paid, everybody’s a volunteer. And so that also really makes it like makes you super passionate about it because everybody’s in it for the cause not for a paycheck.

Torri Shack (36:34):
Um, so I created this product called tele and the way it came up with the name was, um, tangible wellness. And the name was 12. I was like, okay, 12 and the donor domain was taped. Dwayne was taking them like asked if I could buy it from him. And he told me $30,000. So I was like, yeah, I’m going to add an a two 12, call it 12. And there you go for 50 bucks, you know who, this is my donut domain. So, uh, what it is is a mental health app and we’ll be, we, we, we, we just pivoted actually, um, it’s a mental health app and what it was, was going to be a platform that had all different types of mental health services there, online therapy and meditation, basically everything that you can find right now in the, in the marketplace, um, in one platform. But now, um, I have a problem with still, and I know a lot of other people have a problem with spending. And so what we wanted to create was a mindfulness, um, way, a mindful way to stop compulsive spending. And like, for instance, like if you’re anxious or upset or whatever, what do you do add to cart, add to cart, or at least women do, you know, a lot of, a lot of gen Z, a lot of millennials do. And

Sebastian Naum (37:57):
Like, it would have been light up a cigarette before, or have a drink or whatever it is for a lot of people, for a lot of people it’s add to cart, right. Go to Amazon, go to whatever website you shop on. Yeah.

Torri Shack (38:10):
And it’s so mindless and you don’t see the money anymore. It’s all electronic. So you’re not really thinking, Oh my God, this is so much money or whatever. It’s like, not even, not even considering it. So what we were doing is we created like a pop-up blocker, but the blocker has options on it. So the options are you, you clear, you’re going to pick what option you want. Do you want to meditate? You want to take a walk, you want to do pushups. You want to do squat jumps. So let’s say you go to you go to, um, ASIS. And you added that as a blocker. And you’re like, I want this shirt. So you feel like, Hey, you know, you blocked this website for a reason. Um, w let’s do a, let’s do a one minute meditation. This pulsing ball will come up to meditate for one minute.

Torri Shack (38:56):
And then there’s an option. There’s still an option. If you still want to go in, you can unlock it for 10 minutes if you want. And then we also have on there, um, options to, um, we’re going to have opposites to take that money. Like wherever money they were planning on spending and putting into like a CD or maybe some sort of a mutual fund we’re going to have like, uh, kind of like a master class idea where we have financial advisors, um, doing like little video tutorials, like finance one Oh one is not taught in college. How to actually manage your finances. Um, millennials eat, you know, uh, avocado, avocado toast. They’re not having, they’re not buying houses. And it’s because a lot of them have spending problems. So we’re using cognitive behavioral therapy, a cognitive behavioral therapy approach to combat online compulsive spending. And then, um, other mental health, um, components are going to come off of that. The more funding that we get.

Sebastian Naum (39:55):
Great spinoff it. So, you know, I wouldn’t have thought about it before. Like, as to me, you know, I mean, I like to buy stuff, but it’s not something that I go to when I’m anxious. For example, like perhaps maybe for me, it’s more of like, whatever’s near me. Like, you know, I want to take a sip of, or eat like, you know what I mean? So if there’s like snacks around me and maybe like, I’ve started, you know, I’ve noticed like, Oh, I’ll eat some more snacks or I do this. Luckily it’s healthy in a way. Cause it’s, you know, but at the same time, like I noticed that there’s an action with the anxiety. It triggers an action. So this is an action for a lot of people who are shopping. So how is this app actually going to help me change behavior, as opposed to just letting me know, Hey, you’re doing this because one thing is being aware, but being aware obviously is huge. That’s a big part, right? So this app is now 12 is telling me, I’m making me aware that, Hey, I am trying to cure my anxiety with my unhealthy shopping behavior. And so how do I change that behavior? So I liked the way you said the prompt of the meditation, for example. So how do we further that change?

Torri Shack (40:57):
So cognitive behavioral therapy is, is exactly what it sounds like. It’s changing behavior. So there’s a, there’s tons of pop-up blockers out there that exist, but that’s all they do is they block, okay. It’s like an alcoholic can walk by, let’s say bar a and look inside like, Ooh, it smells good that I could smell the beer. Okay. Block block for a minute. They’re going to walk by the next bar. And their defenses are down. They’re sad, whatever. They’re going to walk into the bar and have a drink because they don’t have any tools in their tool belt. That’s going to help them to not have drink. Like for instance, we’re going to have accountability partners. We’re gonna have places that they can reach out to if they have, you know, if they want to talk to somebody instead of spending, we’ll have them do things like, um, write down five things you’re grateful for.

Torri Shack (41:48):
Okay. Um, consider our goal, look at your bank account before you make this expenditure. Okay. Um, meditation do 25 pushups and these 25 pushups, you know, say your goals out loud, like what you want to accomplish in the next 10 years, do you want to buy a house? Is this t-shirt going to help you buy the house? You know? Um, so those things are they built in so that it creates and behavior patterns so that when you, when you are, you know, prompted by something that looked good. And even before walking into the store, your mind is now reprogrammed to think, no, I w I want to buy a house and a tiny house. Let’s say, you know, down the line, I’m not going to make this expenditure today. So it’s not just walking, it’s teaching and giving resources to individuals so they can learn new behaviors and literally logistically and literally like rewire parts of your brain.

Sebastian Naum (42:45):
I love it. I love it. And it’s great example, uh, you know, conscious profits in order to help fund further fund the non-profit of tangible movement. And so since it is a for-profit, how will that be? Uh, how are you monetizing it,

Torri Shack (42:59):
Sizing it. So, and this is the heart. This is the thing that, um, people don’t get this, I’m going to say this, and you’re going to think, well, that doesn’t make any sense. You’re going to pay for it. You’re going to pay a fee a per month initially versus a freemium. And you’re going to say, well, why would I pay for something that I’m trying to, I’m trying not to spend. Okay, well, you pay people have financial advisors. Sure. They pay them. People have accountants to prepare their taxes. They pay them. People have therapists to help them overcome other types of behaviors. They pay them. Okay. Also, you’re going to pay four 99 a month, but I’m going to save you between a hundred to $2,000 a month. Sure. Yeah. So, so we’re going to monetize it that way in the beginning and never had in-app purchases.

Torri Shack (43:48):
Like, let’s say we have a celebrity PSA, like talking about their financial struggles or whatever, you know, they can, they can buy in to access these premium features as far as, um, different types of individual, like Suze Orman. I’m not sure really with her, she’s like the financial guru, God of everything. Um, but she’s somebody that would garner a very high rate for speaking. And she teaches young people how, yeah. She teaches young people how to save money. Like she’s taught like some of our success stories or like they’ve taken, she’s taken a millennial who had like, they were living in like paycheck to paycheck. And one year they saved a thousand dollars by making all the adjustments that she suggested little adjustments

Sebastian Naum (44:36):
Here and there along the line builds

Torri Shack (44:38):
Up. And then we’re also also going to be partnering with banks. So let’s say that a hundred dollars you’re going to spend at Amazon or whatever. Hey, why don’t we put that in a savings account since you were going to dispose that money anyway. So we’ll partner with the bank and they will get a rebate on the backend from the bank. Got it.

Sebastian Naum (44:55):
Now, are people going to be aware? You’re letting them know that part of what they’re paying too. They’re also helping fund this other great project. It’s other great cars, right?

Torri Shack (45:04):
Don’t want to say 20, 20% of the proceeds initially until, you know, we, we get we’re, we’re, we’re able to, uh, you know, be, have more funding 20% or 25 or whatever we decide of the proceeds of your purchase for 12, it’s going to go towards tangible movement to help further the cause of any of the stigma of mental health or mental health conditions.

Sebastian Naum (45:26):
Yeah. And with, uh, you know, millennials and gen Z, we’re all making more and more conscious decisions. We vote with our dollars where we want the money to go. And we’re seeing the younger generations actually really care about making a difference. And they, so even if there was a copycat perfect exactly app, that was an option, but it didn’t have, that was the only difference that this was a purpose-driven brand, which is 12 to help fund this other, you know, company that does this great thing. Then they’re most likely going to go with you.

Torri Shack (45:56):
I’ve totally got it. And I’ve talked to a lot of gen Z ears and people are like, well, they don’t have money. I’m like, yes, they do. They have money. They get allowances. But the problem is they don’t, they don’t, they probably, they don’t even really know what cash looks like. So then exchanging cash is all electronic. So it’s all they push a button and things happen. And then a box shows up at their door there it’s totally blind, unaware, unconscious shopping. Totally. And I can tell you what I get really excited when I’m shopping online. Like my favorite thing ever is going home and seeing the boxes on my porch. It’s like, wow, there’s my boxes. Like I’m telling you, it’s like releases, endorphins,

Sebastian Naum (46:38):
The box releases more, you know, it’s wild. And it’s kind of maybe disgusting in a way, but like all the time I see boxes up sees boxes. And I have no idea what’s in them because I have no idea what it was. Luckily like a lot of the times consumables, like, you know, like a protein powder or whatever this or that, but it’s bad when you buy something, you have no idea. Then you’re like, Oh

Torri Shack (47:04):
That happens to me. Like nine times out of 10. I’m like, Ooh, what is this? I forgot. I forgot what I got it. This is exciting. Let’s see what’s inside.

Sebastian Naum (47:15):
Uh, sorry. Well, we’re living in a crazy social climate, uh, clearly, and today’s youth more than ever a scene because of technology because of innovation, because of the way exposure works, we’re being exposed to so many things we weren’t before. Um, what do you believe are the one to two top things that the new conscious leader should focus on today?

Torri Shack (47:40):
Obviously right now, what we’re going through with George Floyd is a huge turning point in our neck and just history in general, this is going to change the course of history. Um, so obviously becoming more racially aware and racially, uh, you know, de-stigmatizing race, number one, the other big issue, I think that as needed need is going to be combated. This it’s not because of my political affiliation. It’s because of the fact of the matter is school shootings happen and there is need for gun control on some level. So they’re going to have to combat that because neither of them are going to go away. Anytime soon, it’s going to be a long drawn out process and they’re going to need to have the resiliency to stick with it in order to effect, change as well as mental health. You know, they’re all, a lot of people are getting on board with mental health driven, uh, you know, uh, programs and proposals. But I definitely think that systemic racism is a major, major issue. Um, it’s coming out more because of who we have in office right now. They, uh, the racists have a platform and they think it’s okay to do and say certain, say things. And they believe that they are backed by the United States of America. So

Sebastian Naum (48:55):
Maybe then what you’re saying is awareness, empathy, and awareness, essentially for new, for the new age conscious leader to have about everything that’s going on in their surroundings in order to lead better, whether that is a CEO or a political leader.

Torri Shack (49:12):
Yeah. Yeah. And coming up and helping with coming up with ideas, like for instance, uh, police officers responding to mental health crisis is like, it should be social workers or, uh, you know, you know, therapists or other things. Police don’t need to have so much control over every aspect of every single call. So it would, it would, I think it’s got to come from the young people, uh, the gen Z peers who are going to create that change for the rest of us. Um, but yes, definitely. And the gen Z years, especially are totally about conscious capitalism. They will go work and take a lower paycheck to work for a company that has purpose behind it versus a company that is, you know, uh, maybe let let’s pretend Google, you know, as a huge w you know, waste tons of paper, blah, blah, blah. You know, they’re conscious about the environment. The environments are very important to them, and they’re conscious about, you know, where the profits are going. So if a company is donating supports up approach to the profits, to an organization that they really believe in, they’re going to work there and they’re going to take a lower paycheck versus working for their corporation.

Sebastian Naum (50:16):
I think, and those companies will be led by conscious leaders and they will attract better and better talent, which is so awesome. Tori, can we connect with you

Torri Shack (50:28):
With tangible movement? Um, Twila sure. Yes, the 12th it’s almost completed, but you can visit the website. It’s 12 T w E L L a dot I O. Um, and then for tangible movement, you can visit the website, tangible movement.org. Uh, we’re also pretty active on Instagram, so just tangible movement on Instagram, and we have Facebook tangible movement and Twitter tangible movement, but we’re mostly active on Instagram. Um, and our website, you can check our website for events. We do have a lot of events that we participate in. Like we just participated in a, we rise mental health department, mental health event. Um, and so website and our Instagram is probably the best way to reach us. And then for the website, uh, is definitely the best way so that you can download the Chrome extension that is going to do the, um, do the, do the deal for you when we’re ready to launch it, which is going to be a couple of weeks.

Torri Shack (51:28):
Awesome. Sign up. You can sign up on the thing and get early, um, you know, an early bite of the products for free. Hey, um, just put your email address in there and we’ll, we’ll, we’ll notify you when it’s ready to download super excited for a tutorial. Well, thank you so much for being with me today and I wish you all the best. I’m really excited for all that’s to come and keep doing you. Thanks, dude. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much story till next time. Bye. Bye. Talk to you later. All right, let me okay. Awesome, dude. You’re good. Thanks so much story. Yeah, that was good. Appreciate it. No problem. I enjoyed it. I love it. I’m excited. I’ll be getting ready to launch all this stuff in a couple of weeks in a few weeks, too. So hopefully by the time it’s all done and done, we probably will be launched to, and, uh, everyone will get to hear about the story and the airport, and it’ll be great. Yeah. And I’ll put your, uh, I’ll put the podcast link up on our blog or our website and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll announce it on our, our Instagram and it’s already. Awesome. Thanks so much story. You’re welcome. She had a dude, I’ll see you at the office. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you.